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Marrying Older Women

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My friend is in her late 50's and has recently married a man in his mid 20's. She has her own apartment in Turkey and I am worried about her. They live together in Turkey. In England a man in his 20's would not give a woman in her 50's a second glance so why in Turkey - are his intentions honourable. What happens to her property should the marriage not work out. Young Turkish men are expected to get married and have children, clearly a 50 year old will not be having children. your thoughs or views would be appeciated on what could happen to her

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Supergran Welcome to the forum,You seem to be an intelligent and a concerned person towards the loved ones...So I guess your friend is just as intelligent and caring person and probably thought a lot about this marriage before she walked into it..If your friend bought the apartment before the marriage it will be hers even if they divorce unless ofcourse they made an agreement contrary to this before/after the marriage... His intentions could also mean to be honourable(metaphorically) for your friend if they agreed to stay married for certain number of years than divorce... Honestly Supergran, can you or us could work out their intentions properly?

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hiys Supergran,I understand your concerns but im sure your friend thought about the marriage before hand like Zehra said. If he makes her happy at this moment in time, let her enjoy the time she has with him however long it may be :)And your statement about a Englishman in thier 20's isnt exactly correct. My dear friend married husband 6 years ago when he was 18 and she was 45, they are still together and still very much in love :)Not everything is black and white

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Just go along with it and let her enjoy it while it lasts, but be ready with a broad shoulder for her to cry on when she needs it.

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There is a lady in my gym who is 62 and her boyfriend (Turkish) is 29. She has a spring in her step and she says he is also happy as he said his life is much better with her now. I think the phrase 'as long as it lasts' is key here. I was told Turks are very conservative when it comes to large age gaps on the woman's side. Not only that, all my Turkish friends, present and former, do not believe in mixed marriages. You don't see that many older women and younger men here in Istanbul but I believe in the coastal resorts it is a bit of a cliche.

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Hi supergranI've been happily married to a Turkish man for 5yrs now, I'm 48 he's 28....... we relate very well together, we have the same sense of humour and enjoy the same sort of things. and we look OK together, we don't look like Mother and Son........... I look quite young for my age, (blowing my own trumpet I know) but if I was to look more my age, possibly older then I don't think I would have gone ahead with the relationship, I just wouldn't have felt comfortable walking around with him, I would have been concerned about getting "looks" from people..... simply because the age difference would have been so noticable.....that's me........ we also got the whole family's blessing for our marriage.................I have witnessed while living in Turkey quite a few older ladies with young Turks and the age difference hit you like a ton of bricks, even I was taken a back and begged the question "what really does he want from her" ........Your friend could have gone into this relationship/marriage completely bowled over from this guys romanticism, lets face it, their experts at it...... only time will tell........But on the other hand, through my own knowledge and experiences Turkish guys don't seem to attach the same stigma some English people do where older ladies/young men or large ladies even are concerned............you could say the same of someone who is fairly large young lady, you could say that he's prayed on her vulnerability, low self esteem etc etc........ that she didn't really get any advances from English men, but their she goes with a skinny Turk on her arm, so what's he after...............they just don't care........ it's what's inside the person that counts to them....Having said that, there are also loads out there that do prey on a womans vulnerability and they just use them for what ever means they can get out of them......... usually there are signs that the man is some sort of rat, he's asking for money, maybe not directly but by way of that one of his family members needs an operation, they are very good at it, they ask for gifts that sort of thing, or he's always talking about England, what it would be like here etc etc.......Do you know if your friends Hubby is like this..........Like the others have said, you sound like a good friend, don't judge her but just be there for her if things don't work out, there's no guarantees with any relationship, but if she's happy then support her and just be her friend.........Like zehra said, anything owned before the marriage belongs to her, unless she has put his name on anything (which I would not recommend she do) any property purchased after marriage, even if only she paid and has only her name on, he can claim upto half..........

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I am sorry to strike a sour note here Debbie but I have met a lot of Turkish people both here and in Germany and I have yet to meet a young man who basically is throwing away his future as a family man. Yes, I know all these cliches about 'it's the person inside that counts' and 'love is blind' and a whole lot more. The cold fact is that Turks, at least the Turks I know, whether liberal or conservative, ADORE children and sooner or later will start to crave a family, even if their parents are not pressing them to do so.Age is age and biology is biology. If I had a pound for every older woman who said she looked much younger than she was, that all her friends are younger, that she is mentally in tune with much younger men....I could go on.To sum up I think lovers are ok, but not marriage. Marriage for a young man is to have a family and not to throw his life away on a woman who will never be able to bring him this.I hope this little diatribe doesn't offend you..I am sure you are a good looking woman but looks simply don't come into it here, nor does state of mind.

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I think it is more down to PERSONAL CHOICE, you can not generalise on this that or the other. its like saying all scottsmen dont spend money, all blondes are stupid, all black men have large..... feet, all females want children, all dogs bite people, should i go on?

Just out of interest ben, what is your opinion of younger girls married to older men?

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If I had a pound for every older woman who said she looked much younger than she was, that all her friends are younger, that she is mentally in tune with much younger men....I could go on.

To sum up I think lovers are ok, but not marriage. Marriage for a young man is to have a family and not to throw his life away on a woman who will never be able to bring him this.

.....Sorry benh but I disagree with your statements..... I do look young for my age :D , but not all my friends do, hell some look 10yrs older than me, and me and hubby are in tune with each other, I think if we weren't the relationship wouldn't have probably lasted this long..............why do you find it so difficult to believe that couple's of different age gaps can't work...............and just because a young man has married an older woman doesn't mean to say he's throwing away his life and future happiness, that's a bit shallow

The idea that you should only marry, and can be happily married, is to have a family has well and truly gone out with the cave men..

............OK children may not come into their lives but lots of couples have very loving and long lasting marriages without children, some even choose not to have them........ I do agree that Turks adore children my Hubby does......... but he's had a far better standard of living since been married to me............he says young Turkish girls are like children (too childish) and they are greedy, mostly only interested in men with money (older men, his word not mine) he says if he had married a young Turks girl they would have probably had children straight away, but he admits to me that his life would have been sh*t, never no money working long hours for little pay......I think he was basing his future married to a young Turk on his Parents married life together......... he wanted better for himself and to maybe help his family out if they needed it.......and if that means not having kids then he says he's OK with this....

.....I may be making it sound like my hubby married me for money, but that couldn't be further from the truth, I just haven't got any, not a penny to scratch my :hysterical[1]: with, anything he wants he has to work for it......... but I did provide for him a chance to make a better life for his self....... and he has......... he admits he would have liked children, but says if we didn't have any then we will live our life just me and him together........... maybe he's just bulls*tting me, but he's had 5 yrs to take off and find someone else.........but he's still here.......and he's running out of time by Turkish standards.........

......Like I said before there are no guarantees with any relationship, nothing is for ever........

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Yes, Debbie, as I said..I am sure you are young looking and so on:) I do wish you luck of course and that it will last but you said something important in your last post 'he's had a far better standard of living since being married to me.' This is EXACTLY what the 62 lady in my gym said about her 29 year old boyfriend with whom she has been living for 18 months. He was a waiter before meeting her....what did your husband do?With the greatest respect, the Turks that I am talking about are all educated and come from middle class families. Their parents would kill them if they married a much older foreign lady. Importantly; they do not have to improve their standard of life by marrying an older foreigner. I am sure your husband loves you and this lady's boyfriend also but there is a strong economic element in this. Sorry, but there it is. I strongly agree that the marriages which stand most chance of success are those between persons of the same age and culture. You say that this point of view has 'gone out with the cave man' but I strongly disagree. Some things never change.And as I said before, your personal appearance is irrelevant. Please don't be offended by what I say. I am simply voicing my opinion and do not wish to upset you. Good luck with your life:)

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Just out of interest ben, what is your opinion of younger girls married to older men?

oh come on then Ben tell us the other side of your opinion, because i know for a fact there are alot of young Turkish (and other nationalities) girls married to older men.Talking old fasioned? What about 'love' that the oldest idea of all.We dont and can't choose who we love :hysterical[1]:

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I'm not old fashioned, just sensible:) There is a reason for the menopause you know:)And men can procreate at more or less any age. Unless you count these old biddies who have egg donated pregnancies in their sixties:)Ok...talking about love...what about someone who has an affair with a married man or woman? They could also say in their defence that they can't chose who they love?

oh come on then Ben tell us the other side of your opinion, because i know for a fact there are alot of young Turkish (and other nationalities) girls married to older men.Talking old fasioned? What about 'love' that the oldest idea of all.We dont and can't choose who we love :hysterical[1]:

Ooops and before I forget...why is this old biddie and young waiter thingie so prevalent in Turkey??I have lived in Italy and Germany and it happens very infrequently there.Couldn't be anything to do with economics could it?:DPS: Sorry older men and younger women are more acceptable because a man is fertile for virtually all of his life. That was why I mentioned the menopause.

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This is a frequent and controvestial discussion point, but an interesting one.In my view, resort life is very different from life in an average Turkish community. Therefore, it's not necessarily accurate to generalise about 'Turks', as you could be talking about someone whose family values are at variance with the life he has during 'the season'.Resort life is more permissive than home life, and introduces the average resort worker to a wider set of choices than he may have at home. This includes the choice of women with whom he will have a relationship. In resort, it's not unusual to see older women being chatted up by a younger man, and this may be for a variety of reasons - -there is probably a higher proportion of older single women holidaying in Turkey than in some other countries- Turkish resorts are predominantly staffed by men, so romances tend to be with tourists not other workers (this may explain why marriage to tourists is more common than other countries, though economy is undoubtedly anothe reason)- the prevalance of apparently available men creates a kind of sex tourism, with many women travelling to Turkey for this reason-Turkish resorts use sex to sell. Young men are told that flirting creates business, so it becomes part of his job-This flirtiness includes flirting towards 'older' ladies and breaks down some barriers that he may have felt previously - opens his mind to considering older ladies as a potential partner, not just a respected abla / teyze!-Likewise, there are some men in resort who choose older ladies for economic reasons, and as a consequence it becomes more acceptable throughout the resort- Foreign women often look younger than Turkish women of the same age, so the man may genuinely not accurately assess (or care about) the age gap. Maybe it's sun exposure, maybe it's different lifestyle, but a lot of Turkish men and women (not all of course!) look older than their years.So I would say that the taboo about age gap relationships is less apparent in a resort than in 'normal' life in England or Turkey. You can't say how many are genuine, how many are for economic reasons, or how many in the grey area inbetween - any more than you can say that about any relationship that starts in resort.However, some of these guys can quickly assess a woman's economic position and confidence, and it would be naive to ignore the fact that older (often divorced / widowed) ladies can sometimes fall into the category of economically stable but emotionally vulnerable, with low self esteem.Supergran - I think your concern about your friend is very valid and a sign that you care. As others have said, it would be speculation to guess whether he hasn't really noticed the age gap, doesn't care about it or whether there is any other motivation for being with her - but even if the alarm bells are ringing loud and clear to you, your friend is unlikely to listen or thank you for any advice. If you constantly talk about it to her, she will find it tiring and probably distance herself from you.You may be able to protect her more by observing, but saying little. Rather than expressing concern, if you think something looks wrong, encourage her to think it over for herself - maybe by asking pertinent questions "Don't you mind that.....? are you ok with.....?" Unless she has any doubt herself, your opinion would fall on deaf ears.At the end of the day, there are many unhappy older ladies in the UK and elsewhere, whom society doesn't have a lot of time for. What would her life be back home? Maybe she's not ready for the Bingo Hall yet! And as long as she is sensible about keeping some security, maybe this is better for her than other people may think.I wish her luck - but I hope that she is taking a calculated risk, rather than being naive. If it may help her, direct her to some of the forums for English / foreign women with Turkish men. Ben has kindly said that it's ok to mention www.Turkish-Love.com so you could direct her there. It's just a general discussion site, not just about problems - but sometimes seeing other people's experiences or just discussing your own can start putting things in perspective.

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I'm not old fashioned, just sensible:) There is a reason for the menopause you know:)

And men can procreate at more or less any age

a man is fertile for virtually all of his life. That was why I mentioned the menopause.

Men can produce sperm till late in life but the chances of that sperm being fertile is anolther matter and of course the inclination to do so is reduced. The menopause is an idividual thing. The earlier in life a women starts her period the later in life the menopuase ( sorry to disapoint some of you ladies lol )

Fact; 20 or even 10 years ago people only live to an avergae age of 40 now its 80

People are taller, healthier, babies dont die so regulary at birth or early infancy. and women are concieving naturally later in life then before. Unfortunaly on average men still die younger.

No longer is the need for the human race to be baby making machines. and many men and women choose not to breed.

what about someone who has an affair with a married man or woman? They could also say in their defence that they can't chose who they love?

There are many reason why affairs happen, it isnt always just out of lust. It is up to the indiviual to judge themselves for thier actions.

There are many people (mainly women) that know thier spouse is having an affair but choose to turn a blind eye to it for thier own reasons. Who are we to say they are wronge also?

Many females marry older men for money. Is it because it is more common that people have gotten used to it? Is it socially accepable or is it a fact of life now?

These days woman have become more independant, more empowered. No longer do they rely on men to supply thier needs. They have realised they are people in their own rights. This appeares to be attactive to younger man (even though the older man is scared of it lol ) And trust me this empowerment doesnt meen they are blind to the money orintated man. It meens women are far LESS likely to get used and abused. And if that includes having a younger man to forefill thier needs then good luck to them :hysterical[1]: After all, men have been doing that for years.

Im not saying there arnt 'love rats' out there that use older women for thier own gains, but there are genuine guys that find the old women, larger lady, skinneir girls more attractive.... same as some people like blondes, some reds heads etc.

You politness toward older ladies has changed from

the 62 lady in my gym

to

these old biddies

I find this quite interesting.

Native Amerivan Proverb

Great spirit grant me not to critize my neighbor until I have walked two moons in his mocassins

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Angi, I'm an 'old biddy' too so I count myself in with all this:) How can I insult 'older women' when I am one of them!!!?? I am well into menopause and believe me, that is not an easy time in life. I could go into what kind of things it affects but I think I'd get moderated off the Forum:))) Apart from affecting one's sex life, it causes depression and lack of energy and difficulty in sleeping...never mind noisy discos! Try lifting heavy weights and training six days a week with that going on! I know all about physical appearance and so on because I have been doing fitness for years and have done it to championship level. I studied for my Licence B Fitness trainer qualification when living in Germany and am also a qualified nurse (UK) so I do know a few things about the human body, the female form and what happens to it later on in life. For me it was simply a training interruption and a b***y nuisance one at that. My trainer was world champion and used to call me 'grandma' on a regular basis in front of everyone else:)) If I had got offended then I would never gone all the way to competition. Plus, I was scared of her...she was a lot bigger than me:))I am surrounded at the gym by much younger men as a general rule. When I lived in Germany where there was a much higher standard of fitness and muscularity there were some eye popping physiques and they were the nicest and friendliest and no hint of flirting. Just respect between sportsmen and women because they knew I went to the gym to work and not to flirt and so did they. It is the same here too. Probably because it is Istanbul and not a tourist resort. And I have to say that this is one of the friendliest and most helpful gyms in the world I have ever trained at! Istanbul:)I love Sirin's post. Sirin...excuse me for an ignorant question - are you Turkish? If so, your English is stunning:) And your post the best of all and most well informed. She hits the nail on the head. RESORT LIFE. I bet you Debbie and anyone else on this Forum with a younger partner didn't meet them in Istanbul or a non-resort city. I also bet (and correct me if I am wrong) that they all had lower standards of living and that most or not all of them were waiters. As Sini said - resort life.The Turks I know are all professional people - lawyers, doctors and senior civil servants and military officers. Most of them earn a relatively good living and one or two I know are quite rich! In this milieu, such things as having a foreign much older partner, even someone who is not a Turk or Muslim, are frowned on. This isn't my supposition. It is what they tell me and how society is here. Try finding a toyboy here or even more..in the Ankara civil service:)Finally, on extra-marital affairs. These go on and are accepted as long as discreet. If the person has children, Turkish culture expects the couple to stay together to bring the children up, even if the marriage is not a happy one. So provided discretion is maintained, a 'friend' is acceptable.I still keep to my point of view on this. My father and mother met in a religious environment and were married for nearly fifty happy years. Before the fiftieth anniversary my father asked my mother 'do you think I'll last until my fiftieth anniversary?' He died several months before and it and God bless him they don't make them like that any more. He was a jewel. Those 'old fashioned marriages' as you may call them were and are the best. And he strongly disapproved of strong age gaps on the woman's side particularly.Angi, all my friends here have young children. I envy them:))And if men and women are no longer expected to be 'breeding machines' then what happens??There would be an ageing population here...and all these older ladies wouldn't have this pick of Turkish young men to choose from as the shortage would mean they all get snapped up at 21:))You are benefiting from the kind of society (where men and women procreate) that you say is no longer valid or in fashion!Again I say, no problem in having a friend or lover but 'marriage' is one on paper only in these circumstances!You see...this is a Forum...vigorous debate is allowed..and being a lawyer....:hysterical[1]:)

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I bet you Debbie and anyone else on this Forum with a younger partner didn't meet them in Istanbul or a non-resort city. I also bet (and correct me if I am wrong) that they all had lower standards of living and that most or not all of them were waiters. As Sini said - resort life.

Then please stand corrected :hysterical[1]: My partner had a traditional muslim upbringing, he is educated, and runs his own business in INSTANBUL as well as being involved in the family firms. He has high moral standards and strongly disaproves of the 'antics' of some of is fellow Turkishmen in regard to tourists. He has never worked in a resort town and we didnt meet in one. When we did meet neither of us was 'looking' for a relationship of any description, and I certainly wasnt looking for toyboy, lol.

In no post did I say 'old fasioned' marriages. I firmly believe in the sanctity of marriage but not for 'the sake of the children' or to the detriment of one or the other partner. And 'hats off' to all you guys that have picked 'the right one' first time round.

My Father died when I was 25 (alchohol related) but I know my mother would have stuck by his side despite of his illness because of her upbringing, but it certainly wasnt the enviroment to bring up children nor was it the best for my mother. 'Old fashioned marriages' are not always the best for all concerned :D

Children, I love them. BUT at the ripe old age of 15 I announced to my mother , much to her dismay, that I didnt want any of my own, 'You will change your mind when your older' was her reply....... ok Mum im still waiting for that day :) There is no longer the stigma attached to not having or wanting children. OK In Turkey, grand children are on the list of 'things to pressure your off spring for' but quite honestly things there changing and the younger generations are finding thier own way in life :) They wait until they are 'ready' to marry and have children instead of going into a mariage of thier parents choosing. And yes some actually dont want children or are happy to live thier lives fully without them. You are right that most Turkish guys do loves kids :) but not all would be unforefilled without them.

I know Turkish people of all ages and from all walks of life not just 'professionals' and would certainly not judge anyones personal choices just on the limited experiences or converstions I have had :)

As a nurse you should know that the human race is a wonderful mixture of likes dislikes prefrances :) it'society that tries to dictates what we should or should not like, as long as we stick within the boundries of the law and our own consciense we are all free to follow our own paths to happiness :)

I too love a good debate, and often you will find me here playing 'devils advocate'. I firmly believe that no one should make sweeping statements about a particular group of people (be it race, age, hair colour, whatever) without looking holistically at the greater picture.

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Angi, that's an excellent finisher and I am sorry really about your father dying when you were young:(I have yet in all my long years to meet a man, especially a young one, that was willing to forgo the chance to have a family but if you all meet them, then I am sure they are out there.Also I don't know anyone who hasn't married in their twenties here but of course there must be people like that around. I don't really know about things changing. I would rather say that there are obviously exceptions to any rule but honestly I don't think there are that many of them.Of course it's good that we can discuss things here and not agree and yet nobody takes offence hopefully:)

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Anji, you sound like me. I decided at 14 that I never wanted to marry or have kids. I am now married due to the fact that you can't just get a visa to the US for a live-in boyfriend like you can in many northern European countries, otherwise we would just live together and never marry. Though I changed my mind about marrying, I am still firmly against having children and he is ok with that as he never thought he would ever marry either. So kids aren't a big deal for him. Like me he'd rather just get a dog.

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We have Turkish friends whose son married an older woman. They tried to talk him out of it and hurt the feelings of the woman. Everyone is trying to undo the damage caused by that disapproval now that the marriage took place anyway. Maybe that disapproval was based on hopes for future grand children. I hadn't thought of that before.

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...I'm inclined to feel that it's a bit selfish of the Parents to be only thinking of themselves when it comes to their sons marriage...and any future grandchildren.

.....I have mothered 2 boys, I did not give birth in the hope that they could one, later provide and look after me, and two that there sole basis of a marriage was to be able to give me grandchildern......... yes I would love grandchildren, but certainly not at the cost of my sons happyness........... the most important thing to me is that my Son is happy

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I agree with you, Debbie, but we are influenced greatly by our culture and some people have the perspective that their children "owe" them grandchildren. I have some cousins who were hurt by parent expectations to "produce" when they didn't want to have children. We grandparents don't help the situation by flashing around our darling grandbaby pictures to our friends. ;-) I don't think it is just in Turkey that people act that way.

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You can understand the culture because if you have no children/grandchildren, without a welfare state or lots of money, who is going to look after you when you get old and infirm?Some of the older people here seem to think themselves 'old' and if you look at them, although they are the same age as you, they look and act at least 10 years older.A neighbour's mother for example is a year or two younger than me but she's obviously written herself into the "I'm an old lady" scenario and just sits around doing very little expecting others to do things for this poor old lady! And there are plenty more like her.

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I don't think it is just in Turkey that people act that way.

correct, there is the same in the uk to. just depends on peoples perspectives

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You see it is a natural desire to want to continue the species. This 62 year old lady (yes she is a nice lady!) in the gym with whom I have become friends is in a similar predicament. Despite her having materially helped her 30 year old boyfriend by buying him out of army conscription, which cost her

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LOL *SIGH*PERSONAL CHOICE NOT COMPULSARY........................are you saying there something wronge with me for not haveing that NATURAL DESIRE.... me and thousands of others LOL

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