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Oncebitten

Multi cultural marriage-Some advice would be great

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Hi, I'm new to the site. I just joined today. I'm hoping someone can give me their thoughts on the subject and possibly share their own experiences on it. 

So i am married to a kurdish man and we are living in Turkey. (3 years living here and 7 years together) we also have a 4 year old daughter. 

The problem I am having is the constant arguing between us. It never stops. If I say something that he does not agree with, I get called stupid, a b*tch, bad heart and many worse things. I'm not allowed to talk to anyone outside otherwise I'm "not normal". Even if I'm in the park with my daughter and I speak to another Turkish mum there, he hates it. I have one friend here who is from Europe, sometimes we try to get our kids together to play and for fresh air. My husband hates this and says it's also not normal to have friends. He wants me to stay inside all the time and clean constantly. I'm not allowed to wear make up or wear my hair down. Even though I don't wear make up often, I'm not "allowed" to do this. I'm often told what to wear even though my clothes are respectful and don't show skin. It doesn't matter. 

I understand I'm living in Turkey so I should respect Turkish culture which I really do, but surely when marrying into a multi cultural couple there should be some give and take. 

I try my best to do what is asked of me but it never seems to be enough. I offered him to get divorced if he's unhappy like this but he attacks me verbally then telling me I'm sick in the head and that 8 need help. 

There is no affection there. We sleep in seperate rooms. We don't even sit close to each other on the sofa. We barely talk. 

If my parents video call me, he gets angry and doesn't like it. Normally they call to see their grand daughter which should be normal. 

The thing about it is, when we first met it wasn't like this. Then suddenly when we got married and had a child, it all started to become controlling. Like I said I respect our marriage and Turkish culture but sometimes I think this is a little unfair? I'm not allowed to speak to my neighbours even though they're friendly and ask me for coffee. (their house is literally next to mine so it's not unsafe or far away). 

 

I'm just lost and don't know what to do anymore. I feel like he expects the world from me but then no matter what I do it's not enough. Is this normal? Am I being too sensitive? Is it my fault that it's like this? I'm considering just going back home with my daughter then sorting out visiting arrangements so he can see her as often as possible. I'm just not sure how it can keep going like this for the rest of our lives.. 

 

Also please be kind with your replies. I can't take anymore abuse lol

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Hi Oncebitten and welcome to Turkey Central. I hate hearing stories like this. No this is not how your husband should be treating you, it is controlling in the extreme and abusive too. Yes there are quite a number of Turkish men who behave like this and there is a strong movement in turkey to stop it but in the home where nothing is seen by outsiders a lot of it seems to be going on. I think your best bet is to follow your heart, get yourself and your daughter out of here and go back home.

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Thank you for your reply. Sometimes it's hard to know if I'm over reacting as I've been called names so many times that I start to doubt myself telling myself Its my fault and that I should respect the culture more. (i do anyway) I'm a shy person in general but even when I go outside I'm scared and comfortable to even make eye contact with anyone incase he gets angry or annoyed. I have flights booked for march as I'd planned to visit home then for a few weeks but I'm possibly going to use this as my escape route. 

 

Thanks again

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Hello Oncebitten, welcome!  Your post really saddened me.  As Cukurbagli says, it's not supposed to be like this, but unfortunately some Turkish & Kurdish men can be extreme in this type of behaviour, & you do not deserve this. No matter what you do he can't or won't change that behaviour because to him it is quite normal. I'm surprised he is letting you go to visit your family!  Yes, you would do well to escape him in this way, but please do take very good care that you don't give him cause to suspect your plans beforehand..... I wish you the very best of success! :) 

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unfortunately, my fiance has very similar behaviour. :( " dont wear too much make up, ", dont put this clothes,they are too much open for other men" , dont use miniskirts, dont use v necks, ", Dont look at this man", he has also kurdish roots, and he is very strictly believer person, his upbringing was also strict.  I dont know, i think in turkey its very common , it has deep roots in culture :/  But of course he shouldnt force you to wear hijab or dont talk with people. This is sick, and also he shouldnt tell you bad words as a b*tch and etc. I think you must leave this guy : ( 

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Hi tequelinka24,  I totally agree with your recommendation that Oncebitten should leave the husband who treats her so poorly...

Perhaps you might also consider your own situation...  in Turkey it's often just as difficult to break ties with a fiance as with a husband, as they think they already "own" you.  Marrying your fiance may see you trapped like in the scenario above... I think you should leave this guy! :thumbsdown:

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@Meral i was thinking about leaving him before, but then i started to think about marriage and got engaged. Sometimes yes, my fiance has similar behaviour, like typical Turkish man. Even i dont know other men there with different behaviour. Every man has the same behaviour,  / i dont know why really?/there is no exception for me. I love so much my fiance but im european woman. my fiance is jealous and little possesive, but he told me, that he will never tell me something bad or hit me or something like this. Sometimes he is bad tempered and very nervous, but his behaviour to me, its very nice 95% of time. Yes, sometimes we have arguments because of he is very overprotective, i also cant talk with people, only i can say merhaba, but he told me, that its for me dangerous. Also this make up, once he told me, dont put too much lipstick on your face you look good without this. When we were swimming he had also problem with my bikini, that i seem like naked. And also he told me once that dont wear this miniskirt, you look like naked. Its shameful for me. And also i cant go out much walk around in city without him, because he has worries about me. He told me that im european and in turkey its not safe for european girl still. So mostly,im walking arounf with him 98% of time. These restrictions of course limited me, specially when he is telling me which clothes i can wear which no, and also this going out without him. He hates.

Im also considering this all. But i see that all turksih men are same , unfortunately. Overprotected, possesive,jealous. and not depends on practising religion. Its family culture. 

 

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tequelinka, I think you are very young & of course in love with your fiance, so you feel these things about trying to control how you look, how you dress & who you can talk to will not matter because he loves you, and you feel you should accept this because "it's part of the Turkish culture, & all Turkish men are like that". 

Perhaps many Turkish males are like that because it's how they were raised and what they observed in their own families & communities.  But NOT all of them are like that.  They are mostly on a continuum (some extreme, others less so). 

In the end, it depends on whether you are prepared to give up your freedoms for the sake of this man you love.  There's no way you can change him -- you either accept it or not.  This forum has many stories on this topic which you can find if you dig deep enough. 

The decision is, of course, yours.  If I was in your position, I wouldn't be in a hurry to marry, maybe wait a bit longer & see how it goes.  At least be aware of the possibilities. Whatever you decide, I wish you happiness! :)

 

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@Meral aha, thank you, for this advice, yes im also thinking in this way. Do you think that it can maybe be worse after wedding ? 

I was thinking that all (mostly) turkish men are like that. IS it misunderstanding?

I didnt hear many stories about this. Unfortunately. yes, we are young with my handsome fiance, but i think, that he realises that he is sometimes overreating, we are talking about this of course very appropriate, and i told him that i ont want to give uo my freedom, im european hristian woman, in my country girls have even more rights then men. They are like a flower and man must take care about them, and not cut their freedom and beat them or give them restrictions.

So i told him, and he agreed about many things. But also i see that i cant change him much. He already got this sick mindset from environment. he is thinking that is normal and good to tell girl, which clothes i can wear  ( he thinks that it must be, because he must protect me in front of oother men, maybe they will look at me much and he doesnt want this). And also he is practising muslim and he storng believer, he is living according Quoran, and in Quoran its written according him, that men and also women must have modest clothes and more clothes on them not to be "like naked", he told me something like this.  They must covere their private parts. But i think that sometimes its little skirt and v neck normal, i dont look like a prostitute, he sometimes overreacts. But i explained him many times, i want my freedom, and he told me, ok we will do something with this. YOu can put on you what you want, but its only words, but when it comes to actions, i cant wear everything:/ because he is so angry, that im showing my body, and im going naked out: (

Also this going out alone, (during day i mean), i told him, i want to walk litle bit near sea but he didnt let me to go. I told him, that i will go alone, he started to be angry and shouted me, that i shouldnt walk around because something can happen to me/ its dangerous/, maybe his mindset its too much overreacting, but i dont like it. I want to bewith myself sometimes, but he still wants to be with me and then he is angry and sad when i dont want. Like a child really . This personal freedom and emancipance is for me the most important but also love, i dont know which middle gold way we will find, but i hope that yes. and i will not finish like this woman, who asked this discussion:( 

But we already discussed all with him. he told me, i will try to be more tolerant but im doing this for your favor. Turkey is not like your safe european country, you cant here walk little naked and alone. he is i think so much jealous and possesive. Even i put some photo on my social media, whih was with some normal vneck and he told me, you must remove and put different, because you look like very naked. Everybody will see you aha and also he is going mad when im writing with some men, my friends, i cant do. :(

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Dear tequelinka, in answer to your first question - YES!  If he is already trying to control you now & gets angry,  I'm sorry to say it's highly likely it will get worse after the wedding. Isn't it better to sort it all out before you go ahead with marriage?  What does your family think about this?

 If you marry him now, and maybe have a child with him, believe me, it can get much worse.  You already have one example of this from Oncebitten's story above....   married, home all day while he is working, not allowed to have friends or go out alone.  His argument about dressing "modestly" as in the Koran (also in the Bible) is open to interpretation... it doesn't mean you should be totally covered up.  Trust is also important -- he should trust you enough to let you see your friends & not need to check your phone calls & messages. And by the way, have you settled the question of your religious differences, at least?

A woman alone in Turkey is probably as safe as anywhere else, provided she uses plain common sense. It's plain to see that he has his own fixed ideas about things & will insist you go his way. As I said before, it's totally up to you, & it's wise to wait & see. Good luck! :) 

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Hi tequelinka, Meral and I have been involved with this forum for quite a few years, we have never actually met each other but along with a couple of other people we have been trying to help people here for at least ten or twelve years and we have seen a lot of young women in your position. We know that love is a strong emotion and we know that it is sometimes very hard to believe things like this can happen to you but they do. There are too many stories of women being blinded by love and who think that they will be able to change the man they love when in fact they can't. Then we see the result of this when they ask us for help to get divorced and take their children home. We always try to get them to open their eyes and see what they are walking into and usually we fail. There are lots of stories like yours in our marriage forums, occasionally we have even got to meet these girls and they have told us they wish they had listened to us. You have already told us that you don't think you will be able to change your fiance, well please read through some of the other posts in our marriage forum or more importantly our dating and romantic relations forum. You will find all the heartbreaking stories there.

The bottom line question you have to ask yourself is: Would I put up with this from a Christian European guy? I suspect that your answer would be no. Then why should you put up with it from a Turkish muslim guy? He might have a nice tan and be handsome but if he is going to be like this to you now what is going to happen ten years from now when he is fat and still wants to go out with his men friends and leave you at home with two or three kids?

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@Cukurbagli thank you so much for your comments. Yes, i think that also can be problem after wedding with  different religion, i think he will push me and force me to become Muslim, he is very religious person (for him is first God and religion) he even doesnt want to live with me and kiss me more before marriage/ And of course christian guys are not doing this possesive things ( i had 3 boyfriends before him all christias and europeans). But i really love this turkish man, he is still praising me, very loveful man, educated and good- hearted, compasionate and sensitive. He really loves me a lot. I see at him this feelings. each day he is saying me nice words, how he loves me so much. How he is happy with me, really he is putting a lot of effort and he is serious guy. Thats why im still considering our wedding. Im sometimes thinking and im scared that he will force me to do many things which i dont want after marriage. Of course i talked with him about all, and he promised me, that he will not force me. But i see on him, that he is so much strict believer, and i dont know what can i expect from him.:( sometimes it really makes me worried, that he will want to change all my life after wedding. And of course he told me, from the begining, ht our children must be Muslims, they cant be ateist or christians- never, it was one of his conditions.

he is still offering me and telling me about his religion how is beautiful, nice and he also reading for me some parts of Quoran. Its ok, i really like to learn new things, but i really dont have desire to talk about religion topic much, but he is still talking, even each second day, but very long time, even two hours of our conversation, he is able to speak deeply about religion. I feel sometimes very strong pushing from his side. Of course he told me, that everything is on me, if i will change myself, or not, but i think, that after wedding i " must do " for peace in family.

But i dont want really. im ok how im already. But he is still talking, that ok ok, its ok, you neednt do this,i dont want to change you, but i see, that he wants. I dont know what can i expect from marriage.

And for example about this children, our future children, we must agree in different way, i want from them to become very nice moral people, of course they can fllow some religion, but for example, for me its ok, if they will be buddhist, or ateists, they neednt be Muslims or Christians, if they will seek a truth and live good life, its up to them, But he told me very radically and strictly NO! they must be muslims. But i want from him,that we can maybe agree that we will teach children both of religions and rher differences and when they will be adults they can decide, but with him i cant speak like this. He already refused this very strictly. He wants muslims from them there is no agreemnet and negotiating, no democratic thinking. And i dont know really how i can rise children in Muslim believing with all this traditions, habits? I dont know anything from this.

I think then wil lstart problems.

 

@Meral you can check also this religion matters above, i wrote. These differenies. I wrote. Its strange somehow. This approaching from him.

I want more democratic solution about religion but he doesnt want at all :/  So i told him, Ok, maybe children can be Like you, but what about me, how we wil lliving, its not easy for me. Im from total different culture.

I think my fiance trusts me, but he is so possesive and jealous, he doesnt want to looose me, thats why he is doing this crazy things with phone, messaging, and clothes..:/ he also saw this from environemnt. He thinks that its normal. Even he told me, that he is checking the fb of his sister, that its normal in turkey. Its protection. What can i do :/ 

 

 

 

 

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Hey guys. 4 months late on the reply, sorry! I'm awful at getting back to people lol anyway thank you very much for taking the time to respond to my post, it's greatly appreciated. 

I'm still here at the minute with my daughter and my husband and I have had a handful of arguments since I first posted this thread. It's taken me 8 long years to see what was right in front of me and only within the last year I've started to see everything for what it is. I'm due to fly back to the UK in 3 weeks time if all is okay virus wise I've mentioned it to my mum briefly and she said I could stay with her until I get sorted. 

The other day I also was taken aback as my husband randomly as he was going out the door threw in mention of having another baby which completely baffled me due to the arguments we'd had. Clearly there are a number of problems in our marriage that I hoped would be worked on but it seems they've obviously just gone way over his head. I've made it clear on a number of occasions that I do not want anymore  with him and he said he understood and that it was okay. Now it's like he hasn't taken what I've said seriously and threw into convo. I tried to be careful what way I handled the situation as I'm still trying to make it to the getting back home stage. So I waited until this morning and gently asked if he would get me some more of my contraceptive pill, which he did. This is obviously another way of him trying to either keep me here or make me want to return. It doesn't. 

Again thanks for the help everyone. It's great to have advice from others point of view. I will keep an update once I've returned home! (if I do with said virus circulating!!) 

 

Also to the lady thinking of marrying in the same situation as me, if I can give you any advice before you marry this man, don't do it! Please don't. I love my husband and know he has a good heart, it's just his culture and he's so used to it but my life has been pretty controlled. I'm not allowed to do anything basically. I stay inside 95% of the time. I also was told that it's not safe here for me to have coffee with my friends as I'm a foreigner! Which is bull crap to be honest. A few other girls 8 know have full independence and their husband's support them. If you're already seeing warning signs then do not go ahead and marry this man. He's not going to change or get better just because you're married. It. Will. Get. Worse. I wish I'd been told this before I married! 

Anyway, good luck with whatever you decide to do, just don't be blind sighted like I was x

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Wow, Oncebitten, it's good to hear back from you as I was wondering how things were working out for you. And thanks for addressing tequelinka too;  your advice (literally from the horse's mouth) will, I hope, have a stronger impression on her than anything the rest of us could possibly say, who haven't lived it.  I certainly hope she will take it to heart.

tequelinka, I urge you to read the signs your fiance is showing you, read his anger when you challenge his dictates. Some things can't be left till after marriage to settle... you must sort them out now,  before you take that step. Before it's too late......!

Good luck with whatever you decide to do, just don't be blind-sighted as Oncebitten says. :)      

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It is so hard for me :(  

i cant imagine my life without him, because i know that we love each other, i think time will show us the right way, now because of corona virus we are so far away, then i will see.

@Oncebitten   is terrible to listen this. :( its so sad what you have.   I would like to maybe write with you personal message if you want, we can write sometimes. I have more questions on you. its so hard to decide what to do.  i woul be glad if we could talk messages, i wish you goodluck

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Dear tequelinka,  you will be having some difficult times in your own mind to look at both sides of the situation & make a decision for yourself.  I wish you good luck in your journey.... and..

Oncebitten, I hope you made it back home before the travel bans... it seems the Corona virus is impacting heavily on people's destinies at this time, sometimes turning our worlds upside down.  I also wish a good outcome for you.

It really would be nice if the two of you could mutually support each other, as it is your personal lives & destinies that are at stake!  God bless you both! :) 

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