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Mihrimah

Some confusions about residence permit

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Please, in a case that I work on line with sites such as Alibaba , ebay .. , not a kind of registrated company and probably I will do a website ( I don't know if I can do it in Turkey ) and selling will be outside turkey ( as I know earning money in turkey needs a work permit ) and customers will transfer money in turkey ,for example, via bank account  and others types of payment allowed as Western Union... 

* The question is concerning residence permit , if I will show that I do this to support my self instead to proove an amount  500$ per month yearly to support one self as I don't have exactly the amont of 12000 liras - as I red in the forum -but nomally is more than this about 17500 liras ? 

* In case that I'm going to register for a turkish company ( for limited company , 10000 liras as capital and a business partner is required); could I register , for example, for a few amount of money until I find a business partner , and this, of course, will guarantee my ikamet ?  I have to proove the demanded amont of money yearly in this case,too? 

* Concerning the tourist option within the residence permit , as there's something no coherent about it, I was informed that if , for example, having a contract of rent for a year ; you can get a residence permit but through the options of ikamet it's not clearly mentioned and apparently is considered with the tourism option ( I'm not sure about this option, is there any one experiences this )? Normally, inhere I have to proove the amount of money,  yearly .

* For people who make remarkable cultural project , of course, for Turkey ; I heard that they giveTurkish nationality for exception  and may be  there're benefits as it's not asked to applicate for residence permit; to what extent that's true ? 

To open a bank account , normally, you need a tax number and a passport identity , but I guess it's not possible with all banks.

Your help is appreciated, 

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For bank accounts..I had trouble getting a bank account at many banks without a residence permit. So, from my experience, my advice is to find a bank located on a University campus that has lots of foreign students. They deal with this all the time.

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if I will show that I do this to support my self instead to proove an amount  500$ per month yearly to support one self as I don't have exactly the amont of 12000 liras - as I red in the forum -but nomally is more than this about 17500 liras ? 

I think you're referring to  the usual $500 USD per month equivalent required in the bank. The immigration specialists at each branch of the GDMM are qualified to use their own judgment concerning whether or not you can support yourself. So if you can convince the immigration specialist handling your residence permit application that you can support yourself, they won't require that you have $500 USD equivalent in the bank.

The main purpose of the rule requiring money in the bank is to help make sure you won't work illegally.

If you work online, have a look at the topics in the forum for working online.

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Concerning the tourist option within the residence permit , as there's something no coherent about it, I was informed that if , for example, having a contract of rent for a year ; you can get a residence permit but through the options of ikamet it's not clearly mentioned and apparently is considered with the tourism option ( I'm not sure about this option, is there any one experiences this )? Normally, inhere I have to proove the amount of money,  yearly .

The wording of the law has created a lot of confusion. I have been living in Turkey for 13 years as a renter. I have never owned any apartment or any villa. I have gotten a new residence permit every year (got one for five years before they stopped issuing five-year residence permits). And I just received my new residence permit. I'm still renting. But the way they word it in the law, I have been a "tourist" here for 13 years, as if I have been sightseeing the whole time!" The word "tourism residence permit" is just an unfortunate phrase. In the end, everybody gets a short-term residence permit whether they own or rent.

You don't have to register a company to get a short-term residence permit. And you don't have to find a Turkish partner. You can just come to Turkey on a tourist visa and apply for a short-term residence permit. If you get it, you can stay for a year. After that year, you can stay for another, and another.

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For people who make remarkable cultural project , of course, for Turkey ; I heard that they giveTurkish nationality for exception  and may be  there're benefits as it's not asked to applicate for residence permit; to what extent that's true ? 

When they consider you for Turkish nationality (citizenship), they look at the "whole person." They look at a multitude of factors as they consider you for citizenship. Basically they just want to know if you are serious about being a Turkish citizen and aren't just trying to get benefits. It isn't like there is a menu of requirements you have to meet which guarantees nationality. :)

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Thank you for the informations.

But there's always something not very clear and this according to turkish law as for WORKING ONLINE, what I concluded is like " it's not illegal but it doesn't mean that it's  legal, too" And I think , it will not be a good idea to tell that's I work online to support myself. And according to this , there're few questions such as is it okay if money will be transfered to turkey not another country? If is it okay to ship  items to customers, of course, outside turkey ( this'not a registered company ) ? Is there a tax or added value for shipping ? ...

Concerning, the question of registration of company , if someone really interested in settling business , so can he make a registration for a few money until he finds a business partner ( business partner has to be turkish ? ) ? When I will settle a business, I have to show 12000 liras  yearly ? 

For the " Tourism" option , as it's linked to rental issue so you can obtain ikamet for 1 year; I guess it's not applicable with all nationalities ; others nationalities can get a residence for something of six months and it's given once time, may be ther's any update about it ? 

* QUOTE : what does mean inhere ?

* A star in front of the post's title instead of circle?

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is it okay if money will be transfered to turkey not another country? If is it okay to ship  items to customers, of course, outside turkey ( this'not a registered company ) ? Is there a tax or added value for shipping ? ...

I think you should consult a lawyer on this to be sure. As it was explained to me, if you are not creating and issuing invoices in Turkey, and are not receiving money in Turkey, then you are not doing business in Turkey. So if you're receiving money in Turkey, that might be a problem.

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Concerning, the question of registration of company , if someone really interested in settling business , so can he make a registration for a few money until he finds a business partner ( business partner has to be turkish ? ) ? When I will settle a business, I have to show 12000 liras  yearly ? 

You don't have to have a Turkish partner to establish a business in Turkey. But again, you should talk to a lawyer. We have a lawyer her in Antalya who provides legal services, she also takes care of company establishment. you can contact her here.

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* QUOTE : what does mean inhere ?

* A star in front of the post's title instead of circle?

 

I'm not sure what you mean... if you want to quote, just click the " button in the toolbar, that will open a box where you can copy and paste what you're quoting. Or you can paste what you're quoting, highlight it with your mouse, and then click the " button.

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Thank you again, 

* Not having exactly the amount of 12000 liras , is it considered to show the possession of money in your origin country to the officer for ikamet? 

* Concerning Tourism option, there's no exception about nationalities in order to get the residence permit for 1 year ? 

- What're the options to allow the application for a long term residence permit ? 

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Not having exactly the amount of 12000 liras , is it considered to show the possession of money in your origin country to the officer for ikamet? 

Let me say it this way. I talked personally with an immigration specialist, and she said that it was up to each immigration specialist to decide if you have enough money to live on. The main reason for this rule is so foreigners will not come to Turkey and work illegally.

I know of one case where they required zero money in the bank from a foreigner, because they felt comfortable knowing that he had enough money to support himself.

I had a similar situation. I just had to provide a letter from the source of my pension, and they accepted that, even though I had downloaded it from my former company's site, and it was unsigned!

However, if you fail to convince the immigration specialist that you have enough money to support yourself, he or she will tell you what you need to provide. And that certainly may require a Turkish bank statement showing that you have enough money to live on.

I'm just saying that there is some flexibility allowed. Whether they give you that flexibility, I cannot know.

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Concerning Tourism option, there's no exception about nationalities in order to get the residence permit for 1 year ? 

I don't know about how different nationalities are affected, an I am not sure what you mean here. But be aware that the word "tourism" is applied to a lot of people, like me (American in my case), who are not "tourists." There is only one short-term residence permit which applies to us regardless of the reason we are staying here.

I have lived here for 13 years, by myself, not married to a Turk and not a property owner (I have always rented). I live in Turkey because I like it here. According to the wording on their website, I have just received yet another short-term residence permit for "tourism."

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What're the options to allow the application for a long term residence permit ? 

See this article section:

Long-term Residence Permits

There you can learn everything I know. :)

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When we went to help a friend get her residency they wanted the bank account details to show that she had had the money in her account for 6 months previous to the application (to stop people moving money around for this purpose).

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-  "I know of one case where they required zero money in the bank from a foreigner, because they felt comfortable knowing that he had enough money to support himself. " 

If it's not indiscreet,  how did support himself ? just to have an idea.  

- " I had a similar situation. I just had to provide a letter from the source of my pension, and they accepted that, even though I had downloaded it from my former company's site, and it was unsigned!"

This happened recently ? 

Did they accept, for example,  an equivalent of original copy of patent that has more than 3 years ?

So, the thing is to show that you possess money whatever if it's a business, savings...?  

- About flexibility etc..  I guess it depends on the officer . 

- About nationality , I meant , I'm not sure, that some nationalities have less  than 1 year permit residence ? 

 

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I have just renewed my residence permit using a letter from my pension provider to prove that I have sufficient funds to maintain myself here, I have used the letter four times for this purpose now.

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If it's not indiscreet,  how did support himself ? just to have an idea.  

I don't know. He wasn't employed, and didn't have a pension. And it was a residence permit extension. He was in his 60s, and presented himself well, so I guess they just didn't bother to ask him for proof of ability to support himself again.

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- " I had a similar situation. I just had to provide a letter from the source of my pension, and they accepted that, even though I had downloaded it from my former company's site, and it was unsigned!"

This happened recently ? 

A month ago.

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Did they accept, for example,  an equivalent of original copy of patent that has more than 3 years ?

I haven't heard of that before, but a patent isn't income, it's an asset.

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So, the thing is to show that you possess money whatever if it's a business, savings...?  

That's what the immigration specialist told me. If they don't accept it though, they'll send you an e-mail or a text message asking you to come to the DGMM and see the immigration specialist. Then they will tell you what more they need and give you time to get what they need. Then you go get it, and take it back to the immigration specialist so they can complete your application package.

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- About flexibility etc..  I guess it depends on the officer . 

That's correct. And they can also change their mind when you go talk to them. For example, I got an e-mail saying that I needed to go to the DGMM. While there, the immigration specialist told me she wanted a copy of the property title deed to the apartment I was renting (repeat... renting), and a copy of my landlord's ID card. She also said I needed to buy Turkish health insurance because the letter I got from my insurance provider was insufficient (it lacked a couple of details).

I politely pointed out that the requirements didn't include me getting a copy of my landlord's property deed and his ID card, and that I had already met the requirements. Also that I had been living there for three years, and I shouldn't have to bother the landlord about all that. She spoke with a supervisor, and agreed. She dropped the request.   I could have gotten another insurance letter, but I decided just to get the Turkish insurance. On the same day, I went and bought Turkish insurance, took a copy of the policy to the DGMM>, and my package was complete.

In most every office in the Turkish government it can depend on who you talk to.

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- About nationality , I meant , I'm not sure, that some nationalities have less  than 1 year permit residence ? 

When you apply online, one of the first thing you enter is your nationality. The system should then tell you what you need and what you qualify for, according to your nationality.

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@Ken

excuse me dear Ken! you have mentioned you're living in Turkey for 13 years. I've heard after 5 years you can apply for long-term residence permit (passport of Turkey)(even though you said 8 years). so why haven't you applied for that? why are you getting one year residence permit and repeat it again and again?! 

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Application for a long-term residence permit can be made after eight years. Application for Turkish citizenship can be made after five years.

I had some breaks in my residence. This year, I have been continuously in Turkey for eight years. I will apply for a long-term residence permit this year.

You cannot get a Turkish passport unless you become a citizen of Turkey.

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I had a look to the links, but let me ask some questions:

1. you've mentioned:  Proof of income equivalent to not less than the minimum wage (

but when you don't have any work permit and you don't actually work in Turkey, how you can show a proof of income to immigration office to get your long-term residence permit?!

2. for getting Turkish citizenship it needs you know Turkish. excuse me, Ken, how's your Turkish after 13 years living in Turkey? what's your level? (but for long term residence permit it doesn't need you know Turkish, that's right? and no interview with Turkish?)

3. would you please send me a page of " Documents Required for a short-term Residence Permit "

thank you

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I don't think it needs to be proof of income so much as proof of funds. If you have money (and can prove that you have money) invested in a Turkish bank account, then this will be enough.

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It seems to be more apparent that many GOC officers are not accepting a bank balance for LTRP's but are insisting to sea regular imcome payments,such as a regular pension income.

This excerpt taken from the GOC FRP application ,documents required....''  7 . Approved and esigned/signed document which states that financial capacity is to be provided sufficiently and regularly throughout the stay.''...The last four words say it all.   

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Ken, I saw a email from you, but I think you deleted that or edited that, anyway, let me explain my mean.

for both of these, long term and citizenship, having a bank statement is enough to prove you can support yourself financially or you must have a job in Turkey.

for example someone has a house in his local country and receive his rent, and through this way can support himself.

or someone works on line, how can they prove? because these are not job in Turkey.

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for both of these, long term and citizenship, having a bank statement is enough to prove you can support yourself financially

Correct. Sort of. And it makes sense. For a short-term residence permit you have to show that you have enough money to support yourself for the duration of the permit, which is up to one year. For a long-term residence permit, You have to show that you have enough income to support you for life. That could be a bank account with a large amount of money that you could feasibly live on, or regular pension income.

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or you must have a job in Turkey.

If you have a job in Turkey, then you would have a work permit. If you have a work permit, you don't need a residence permit. Your work permit is your residence permit.

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for example someone has a house in his local country and receive his rent, and through this way can support himself.

I assume they would accept this as income, if you can prove it. But you would have to ask at your local DGMM to see if they would accept this, and what paperwork you would need to prove it. You'll have that opportunity during your interview. You will certainly need records which show your rental income.

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or someone works on line, how can they prove? because these are not job in Turkey.

You can talk to the DGMM about it. Working online is a grey area. From what I have been told by a few lawyers, if you are not cutting invoices in Turkey and are not selling to Turks, and money isn't exchanging hands in Turkey, then you are not "working in Turkey" and therefore would not require a work permit, according to the legal definition.

But you may be able to show the income from your online business as a means of support. Unfortunately I can't give you a certain answer. And I don't know of anybody who has tried to use online income of proof of financial support yet.

When you get your appointment for your residence permit, go to the appointment and ask your immigration specialist what they would require.

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I can't understand what these sentences mean exactly: (for short-term residence permit *** and I can also get 90 days tourist visa)

Choose a convenient appointment day and time (remember that from the date you apply to the date of your appointment you are legally allowed to stay in Turkey so the appointment date DOES NOT have to be before RP or e-visa expiry BUT the APPLICATION DATE does!)

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Basically all it's saying is that you must apply for an appointment before your visa or current residence permit expires. If you apply after your visa or residence permit expires, then you will be in the country illegally.

Let's say you have 30 days remaining on your visa when you apply for your residence permit. But the only appointment you can get is 45 days later, which will be 15 days after your visa will expire. You are okay, because you will have applied for your appointment before your visa expires.

It is the same for someone who already has a residence permit which will be expiring. If they make their appointment before their residence permit expires, they are okay, even if the residence permit expires before the actual appointment date.

The residence permit online system will provide you with a document you can print out, which shows your application date and your appointment date. If your visa expires between those dates, you can show that document to the police if you are stopped.

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thank you Ken for your complete explanation. I fully got it. but one question:

assume this format: I have 90 days tourist visa, and I'd fill it out after 10 days.so I can get an appointment 45 days after that. 

it means 55 days after my entry to Antalya. so now I have 90-55=35 days remaining my tourist visa after my appointment date. so there's no worries about any expiry ... is this format is possible as well or not?

 

but I think according to that content it's not possible because my appointment date would be after the expiry date of my tourist visa. so it's not acceptable. right?

but we can do it for example 40 days remaining on our visa ... so our appointment date would be 5 days after the expiry date of our tourist visa. right?

 

I need one more thing as well:

1. is there any page on your website to say us how to fill the application form out?

 

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it means 55 days after my entry to Antalya. so now I have 90-55=35 days remaining my tourist visa after my appointment date. so there's no worries about any expiry ... is this format is possible as well or not?

Once you have your appointment, there is no worry about your tourist visa expiring, as long as you have the document you printed from the online system showing that you are in the process of getting your residence permit.

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but I think according to that content it's not possible because my appointment date would be before the expiry my tourist visa. so it's not acceptable. right?

It doesn't matter when your appointment date is. Your appointment date could be the next day or six months later. It is your application date which is important.

Let's look at two theoretical examples:

1. You arrive on a tourist visa. On the tenth day after you arrive, you apply for your residence permit. Now you have two documents showing you are in the country legally:

  • A visa which is still good for another 80 days,
  • a document showing that you have an appointment.

You can use either one of these to show you are in the country legally. In this case your application date is before the expiry of your visa. It doesn't matter, as long as you don't have any gap where you would be in Turkey illegally.

Even if your appointment date is after your visa expiry date, and your visa expires, you still have your appointment application document showing you're in Turkey.

So it doesn't matter when your appointment is. It could be the next day or the next year, as long as the date you apply for your residence permit is before your visa expires.

2. You arrive on a tourist visa. You wait 100 days to apply for your residence permit. Now your application date will be ten days after the expiry of your visa. That means you have been in Turkey for ten days illegally, because you have neither a valid visa, nor the document showing that you have a pending appointment for your residence permit. During that ten-day gap, you will be in Turkey illegally, with no valid visa, and no document showing you are waiting for your appointment.

They do make it kind of complicated when they refer to the dates. All they are trying to say is "make sure you apply for your residence permit before your visa expires."

I think that's because they're looking at it from their point of view instead of ours.

Not to make things even more confusing. :) But let's say your a Turkish policeman. You ask somebody for identification and proof they're in the country legally. You can see their visa expired 20 days ago. And that they applied for their residence permit ten days ago. From looking at those dates, you can calculate that they have had a ten-day period when they were in the country illegally, because their application date is ten days after their visa expiry date.

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1. is there any page on your website to say us how to fill the application form out?

Unfortunately, no. But what you can do is go through the pages in the online system and fill them out, just don't choose an appointment day and save it if you don't want to actually make an appointment. When I did it, The only thing I needed to have in advance was the photo, since you need to scan it and upload it when you make your application. Also, if you fill out the form partially and need to come back to complete it, you can do that, too.

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thank you Ken for your complete reply. I fully understood it. but two things:

1.my appointment date can't be before my tourist visa expiry? so I must choose a date AFTER my visa expiry? that's right?

2.I know the photo has to be taken since 6 months ago. I've received my passport photo recently. one month ago. so I can use my passport photo for uploading on the website and use it in my documents. so doesn't matter to different to each other. they can be same. my passport photo and my documents photo? in my case. that's right?

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