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What do you think about Israel-Turkey Relations?

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Honorable? Anyone who believes that killing, for any reason, is honorable is not honorable.  At best it is an admission of failure. One may say they killed in self-defense, or in passion, or because they were ordered, but there is never any honor in it.  Unless or until you have actually seen the light go out of the eyes of someone you have killed, do not be so quick to bestow "honor" upon the deed. 

 

"...violators seldom admit to guilt. For they believe they were fully justified in their excesses; they were only taking back what was rightfully theirs, preserving their civilization, defending their rights, upholding their honor, and, of course, obeying orders from above."
--Michael Jackson (anthropologist)

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Honorable? Anyone who believes that killing, for any reason, is honorable is not honorable.  At best it is an admission of failure. One may say they killed in self-defense, or in passion, or because they were ordered, but there is never any honor in it.  Unless or until you have actually seen the light go out of the eyes of someone you have killed, do not be so quick to bestow "honor" upon the deed. 

 

"...violators seldom admit to guilt. For they believe they were fully justified in their excesses; they were only taking back what was rightfully theirs, preserving their civilization, defending their rights, upholding their honor, and, of course, obeying orders from above."

--Michael Jackson (anthropologist)

Hi Hobbit;

 

I'm really surprised that you still discuss him after he says killing is honorable as if he lives in a video game or in Europe before medieval age not to mention the fact that killings of Israel is open to argument. For me, he is no different than the killers no matter which side they think they are fighting for.

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Hobbit, your response is too thoroughly reasonable for the ziobot. He lives in his little colonist ziobubble, aged 16. There is no point wasting time with him.

I am cheering for Palestine's ascension to the International Criminal Court. The ICC has already started a preliminary investigation re Gaza.

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I think Erdogan is just trying to point the finger at someone else who is wrong besides himself. They're both wrong so they must be like rivals trying to outdo each other. It's a male ego thing, because they have a lot in common actually. If they were on the same side they would be like twins. One is anti jew one is anti muslim. They're both trying to get cooperation from the Western world which they resent, but they are vying for it's attention and Erdogan just got mad he wasn't invited to Paris.

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Honorable? Anyone who believes that killing, for any reason, is honorable is not honorable.  At best it is an admission of failure. One may say they killed in self-defense, or in passion, or because they were ordered, but there is never any honor in it.  Unless or until you have actually seen the light go out of the eyes of someone you have killed, do not be so quick to bestow "honor" upon the deed. 

 

"...violators seldom admit to guilt. For they believe they were fully justified in their excesses; they were only taking back what was rightfully theirs, preserving their civilization, defending their rights, upholding their honor, and, of course, obeying orders from above."

--Michael Jackson (anthropologist)

I'm not saying that is honorable to kill a person, but it is honorable to protect your children your elders and those who should never have been under attack, by a foreign militia. 

 

Hi Hobbit;

 

I'm really surprised that you still discuss him after he says killing is honorable as if he lives in a video game or in Europe before medieval age not to mention the fact that killings of Israel is open to argument. For me, he is no different than the killers no matter which side they think they are fighting for.

I'm really surprised that you comment. I mean, you can shush every discussion that you don't want to hear from your thoughts, but how come that you think to shush the others is acceptable?

 

Hobbit, your response is too thoroughly reasonable for the ziobot. He lives in his little colonist ziobubble, aged 16. There is no point wasting time with him.

I am cheering for Palestine's ascension to the International Criminal Court. The ICC has already started a preliminary investigation re Gaza.

 

Sarah, I don't know who you are, but I do know that you don't know who I am.

I'm not 16 years old, I'm not a minor. And no, I don't live in a video game.

The ICC will find that the Palestinians made much worse crimes than Israel apparently did.

So, I'm happy that the ICC will finally investigate the Palestinians. It's time that Hamas will be consider as an outlaw organization globally.

I think Erdogan is just trying to point the finger at someone else who is wrong besides himself. They're both wrong so they must be like rivals trying to outdo each other. It's a male ego thing, because they have a lot in common actually. If they were on the same side they would be like twins. One is anti jew one is anti muslim. They're both trying to get cooperation from the Western world which they resent, but they are vying for it's attention and Erdogan just got mad he wasn't invited to Paris.

Protection of civilian population it is not an ego thing. You cannot say that Israel is being led by ego. I mean, can we imagine London being bombarded? How come we are used to imagine Tel Aviv?

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Hobbit, your response is too thoroughly reasonable for the ziobot. He lives in his little colonist ziobubble, aged 16. There is no point wasting time with him.

I am cheering for Palestine's ascension to the International Criminal Court. The ICC has already started a preliminary investigation re Gaza.

 

Hi Hobbit;

 

I'm really surprised that you still discuss him after he says killing is honorable as if he lives in a video game or in Europe before medieval age not to mention the fact that killings of Israel is open to argument. For me, he is no different than the killers no matter which side they think they are fighting for.

 

Hobbit, your response is too thoroughly reasonable for the ziobot. He lives in his little colonist ziobubble, aged 16. There is no point wasting time with him.

I am cheering for Palestine's ascension to the International Criminal Court. The ICC has already started a preliminary investigation re Gaza.

 

And the beat goes on and on and one. Ken encouraged a debate forum, the only problem with standwithisrael is that his arguments have become redundant and no longer attempt to educate. Rather they push an agenda, after his nom de plume is standwithisrael. 

 

Academics from both sides have been arguing this for a very long time and gotten nowhere, why did we think we would do any better?

 

The original post was "What do you think about Israel-Turkey Relations?" And we got far away from that topic. It is a good an relevant question and for those of you who are Turkish and also you long-term foreign residents, What DO you think about Israel-Turkey relations? Are they going to get better or worse?

 

My comments follow...

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Regarding the relationship between Israel and Turkey:

 

Turkey was the second (Iran beat it by a week) Muslim-majority nation to formally recognize the State of Israel, only one year after the Declaration of the Jewish State (28 March 1949).  In 1949, Mossadegh was the democratically elected prime minister. A CIA coup toupled him and the parliament and put the Shah back on the throne. This eventually led to his downfall in 1979 and a quick end to relations between Israel and Iran.

 

According to Zvi Bar', in this 2009 article titled "How do Turkey and Israel measure each other's love? "

"How is Turkey's love for Israel measured? Is it by expelling Israel from a joint military exercise and showing a television series on the Israel Defense Forces' supposed activities in the territories, or by purchases of military equipment and intelligence cooperation? And how does Turkey measure Israel's love? By Israel pushing Turkey out of all diplomatic efforts on the Palestinian issue, or by the Jewish lobby's actions in the United States favoring Turkey, mostly against efforts to define the Armenian holocaust as genocide?"

 

"This is the only Muslim country that is not harshly criticized, whether by Iran or any Arab state, for having such close ties with Israel. As such, it could have served as an excellent mediator between Israel and the Arab countries had Israel not considered it an obvious satellite state." 

The AKP was solidly in power in 2009, led by none other than PM Erdoğan.  The "pious" AKP members are hard-core capitalists at heart and they will, as politicos always do , follow the money.  I do not believe that either Turkey nor Israel want a war with each other on their hands. Neither would be a pushover and the outcome nowhere near as certain as Israel has had in the past. It is in Israel's self-interest to try to continue good relations with Turkey and the reverse is also true. That being said, if Erdoğan decides that Turkey's economic interests are best served by courting Russia and the surrounding Muslim countries and their oil money, then Israel will feel the pain of further ostracism. 

 

I think relations are going to be poor for quite a while longer. Erdoğan has an ego the size of Russia and so does Netanyahu, neither of them seems to be looking for a compromise. I hope I am wrong.

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I agree with Hobbit Turkey and Isreal have a poor relationship. They are not compatible and it has something to do with using religion as an excuse to fight over resources instead of sharing.

Israel doesn't want to fight Turkey. Turkey is whom to blame.

Israel hasn't occupied any territory from Turkey, nor any resource that Turkey uses.

By the way, I would like you to condemn the terror attack that was in Israel today. All those who says that the right of free movement is more important than the right to live, must answer those videos:

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4617622,00.html

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Turkey and Palestine are both Muslim countries so Turkey is on the side of Palestine. And Isreal is against Palestine and uses the Jewish homeland as an excuse to push back the Palestine border. That is the way things are, using religion as an excuse to fight and taking sides. You get it now? (Probably not lol).

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I have heard of a few good things he has done for Turkey, I think one of them is offering healthcare to every Turkish citizen. Can you tell us some other things he has done as I'm not that familiar with that side of him from what I read in the media it's never to good things.

Some of the things circulating in the media have bothered me, especially when he said that women will never be equal to men. Also that women should not laugh much in public.  I'm a woman and I find it destructive for a leader to speak about women this way. Are you a woman?

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Turkey and Palestine are both Muslim countries so Turkey is on the side of Palestine. And Isreal is against Palestine and uses the Jewish homeland as an excuse to push back the Palestine border. That is the way things are, using religion as an excuse to fight and taking sides. You get it now? (Probably not lol).

 

Well you can't be Muslim and Anti-Israeli, the Qur'an is very clear.

 

 

وَإِذْ قَالَ مُوسَى لِقَوْمِهِ يَا قَوْمِ اذْكُرُواْ نِعْمَةَ اللّهِ عَلَيْكُمْ إِذْ جَعَلَ فِيكُمْ أَنبِيَاء وَجَعَلَكُم مُّلُوكًا وَآتَاكُم مَّا لَمْ يُؤْتِ أَحَدًا مِّن الْعَالَمِين يَا قَوْمِ ادْخُلُوا الأَرْضَ المُقَدَّسَةَ الَّتِي كَتَبَ اللّهُ لَكُمْ وَلاَ تَرْتَدُّوا عَلَى أَدْبَارِكُمْ فَتَنقَلِبُوا خَاسِرِينَ

“And (remember) when Moses said to his people: ‘O My People, call in remembrance the favour of God unto you, when he produced prophets among you, made you kings, and gave to you what He had not given to any other among the peoples. O My People, enter the Holy Land which God has assigned unto you, and turn not back ignominiously, for then will ye be overthrown, to your own ruin”.

Qur’an, Sura Maida (“The Table”), 5:20-21 (Palazzi translation)

so, if it is holy it's holy.

And there are many other quotes.

How Israel does see Turkey:

 

bomb+us+next.jpg

 

How Turkey really is:

 

balyoz-asil-deniz-kuvvetlerini-vurdu-770

Well, Turkey gets, what Turkey deserves.

Actually, what Turkey presumably will be looked like is something like this:

fascism-movement-2-Stormfront_org.jpg

(He also spoke about the glory of his ancestors).

Erdogan is out of line you have to admit. Is this about Turkey vs. Isreal ? I say they both wrong and should try harder to get along. Both are at fault.

How come Israel is wrong about anything that is related to Turkey-Israel relations?

 

I am not much into Politics and my major is not in it. But I can say that Erdogan is the most successful Turkish leader I have seen in my whole life. I began to proud of being a citizen of this country under his rule. 

Well, in Austria they had a poll, which its results say that the Austrians believe that Hitler was one of the best leaders of Austria. I believe that powerful leaders, such as Putin or Erdugan, will always have support within uneducated populations.

 

I have heard of a few good things he has done for Turkey, I think one of them is offering healthcare to every Turkish citizen. Can you tell us some other things he has done as I'm not that familiar with that side of him from what I read in the media it's never to good things.

Some of the things circulating in the media have bothered me, especially when he said that women will never be equal to men. Also that women should not laugh much in public.  I'm a woman and I find it destructive for a leader to speak about women this way. Are you a woman?

Erdugan believes, that any woman should have at least 3 children.

Well, Hitler also tried to turn Germany's women into soldier creators. 

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I am not on any sides at all. I also don't know everything in the news about what's going on. I just read pieces here and there and I haven't seen anything about Israel against Turkey, but from what I understand the muslim countries do somewhat stand by Palestine on the issue of Palestine vs Israel partly because of what Israel is doing is wrong and partly because they just tend to support their neighbors, and partly because they are muslim neighbors. However I do not see any countries handing over money or weapons to help the Palestinians like I do seeing money being handed to fund Israel against Palestine and the region of muslim countries it sees as a threat but that is partly because they are being bullies from what I understand. I'm not on any side, just taking bits and pieces from and here and there and putting some of them together to form a concept that seems to follow a general pattern on all sides. tongue.png 

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By the way, I would like you to condemn the terror attack that was in Israel today.

 

There are no good justifications for terrorist attacks whether they are by individuals or State terrorism.  Anti-Jewish and Anti-Muslim atrocities and regime change invasions and the so-called "war on terror" are all inexcusable and only a sociopath would support them.  Each incident generates more terror, more killing, more hatred.  Israel is not all wrong, nor is it right in its policies toward Palestinians, the Palestinian cause is not wrong, nor is the use of terror right also. Frustration leads to anger and fear which lead to hate and finally to retribution: terror and war.  Shame on all of us for supporting any cause which advocates terror of any sort against those who have never raised a hand against them.

 

What is see as a problem about all your arguments is that you do not see any falut, of any kind, in Israeli policies, no matter what Israel, in your eyes, is always correct and justified in whatever actions it takes against anyone, anywhere.  It would help us all, if you, an Israeli, would admit to some of the wrongs Israel has committed toward Turkey or the Palestinians or to anyone. Surely your nation is not so pure, so devoid of any wrong-doing, that there can be no blame laid at the feet of the Israeli government and its policies in the Middle East?

Israel hasn't occupied any territory from Turkey, nor any resource that Turkey uses.

 

 

You did not comment upon the article written by Zvi Bar',  who I believe is Jewish, am I correct? Did you read it?

titled "How do Turkey and Israel measure each other's love? "

War? Terror? May there be a pox upon all those who follow that path, no matter their religion, ideology or country.

 

How The Heroes Die by Jim Wright, a retired military man.

"If you truly wish to honor those who put their own precious selves between home and war’s desolation, then you wouldn’t call them heroes.

Instead you’d make them obsolete.

I didn’t go to war so that my son could follow.

Wars are caused by unbridled hate, by intolerant fanaticism, by selfish idealism, by religious extremism, by hunger and poverty and inequality, by bigotry and greed and fear.

If you wish to honor the warrior, truly honor the warrior, then you would do those things which make war less likely.

You would elect leaders who don’t see military action as the first option, or even the second, or the third.

You would elect leaders of reason and judgment, those who are loudly and forcefully reluctant to waste the lives of their fellows and the treasury of their nation.

You would elect leaders who set the example of citizenship, who are willing to listen to each other, to compromise and work together for the good of us all, who don’t go around spewing hate and fear and glassy-eyed fanatical jingoism and simple-minded patriotism."

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I am not on any sides at all. I also don't know everything in the news about what's going on. I just read pieces here and there and I haven't seen anything about Israel against Turkey, but from what I understand 1)the muslim countries do somewhat stand by Palestine on the issue of Palestine vs Israel partly because of 2.what Israel is doing is wrong and partly because 3.they just tend to support their neighbors, and partly because they are muslim neighbors. 4.

However I do not see any countries handing over money or weapons to help the Palestinians like I do seeing money being handed to fund Israel against Palestine and the region of muslim countries it sees as a threat but that is partly because 5.they are being bullies from what I understand. I'm not on any side, just taking bits and pieces from and here and there and putting some of them together to form a concept that seems 6. to follow a general pattern on all sides. tongue.png

1. Correct, they do so because of racism.

2.

Those countries are known for much worse human rights violations.

That thing doesn't concern them.

3.

Israel got independence in the same era that they got.

4. How wrong you are, The Arab League including one of the most rich countries in the world: including Qatar, Saudi Arabia, and Iran, and those are only the most major supplier.

5. Being bullied? I mean, do your nerds attack the bully wherever you come from? 

6. Your narrative is super pro-Arabic. In our propagandized world it's a pity that it is thought to be neutral. 

1.

There are no good justifications for terrorist attacks whether they are by individuals or State terrorism.  Anti-Jewish and Anti-Muslim atrocities and regime change invasions and the so-called "war on terror" are all inexcusable and only a sociopath would support them.  Each incident generates more terror, more killing, more hatred.  Israel is not all wrong, nor is it right in its policies toward Palestinians, the Palestinian cause is not wrong, nor is the use of terror right also. Frustration leads to anger and fear which lead to hate and finally to retribution: terror and war.  Shame on all of us for supporting any cause which advocates terror of any sort against those who have never raised a hand against them.

 

2.

What is see as a problem about all your arguments is that you do not see any falut, of any kind, in Israeli policies, no matter what Israel, in your eyes, is always correct and justified in whatever actions it takes against anyone, anywhere.  It would help us all, if you, an Israeli, would admit to some of the wrongs Israel has committed toward Turkey or the Palestinians or to anyone. Surely your nation is not so pure, so devoid of any wrong-doing, that there can be no blame laid at the feet of the Israeli government and its policies in the Middle East?

 

3.

You did not comment upon the article written by Zvi Bar',  who I believe is Jewish, am I correct? Did you read it?

titled "How do Turkey and Israel measure each other's love? "

4.

War? Terror? May there be a pox upon all those who follow that path, no matter their religion, ideology or country.

 

5.How The Heroes Die by Jim Wright, a retired military man.

"If you truly wish to honor those who put their own precious selves between home and war’s desolation, then you wouldn’t call them heroes.

Instead you’d make them obsolete.

I didn’t go to war so that my son could follow.

Wars are caused by unbridled hate, by intolerant fanaticism, by selfish idealism, by religious extremism, by hunger and poverty and inequality, by bigotry and greed and fear.

If you wish to honor the warrior, truly honor the warrior, then you would do those things which make war less likely.

You would elect leaders who don’t see military action as the first option, or even the second, or the third.

You would elect leaders of reason and judgment, those who are loudly and forcefully reluctant to waste the lives of their fellows and the treasury of their nation.

You would elect leaders who set the example of citizenship, who are willing to listen to each other, to compromise and work together for the good of us all, who don’t go around spewing hate and fear and glassy-eyed fanatical jingoism and simple-minded patriotism."

 

1. Israel agrees to negotiate with the PLO. I mean, Israel, is the only "conqueror" that is expected to beg the "conquered" side to negotiate with it. I mean, Can you imagine France begging Algeria independence movement? I can't. Why do you expect Israel to beg?

2.

Israel made mistakes. Though most of the countries made mistakes. Israel has not committed so many mistakes that it deserves its current reputation. I mean, the only reason, that we are not focused in Turkey, is because in the UN there are 55 Muslim countries. It is not justice, only politics. 

3. Sorry I haven't read this article. Israel is a pluralistic state, and you can say whatever you want to whom you want. I can't follow any article in the Israeli press, because as any western its media is very developed.

4. Israel applies the international law, or at least tries to. Hamas breaks it in purpose, as UN documents say.

5. It's easy to be a pacifist, when there is peace.

Unfortunately, many Muslims don't recognize Israel. Till then, Israel won't able to invest, its high skilled people in helping those countries.

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standwithisrael wrote:
"Your narrative is super pro-Arabic. In our propagandized world it's a pity that it is thought to be neutral."

I accuse you:
Your narrative is super pro-Israel. In our propagandized world it's a pity that it is thought to be neutral.

standwithisrael wrote:
1. Israel agrees to negotiate with the PLO.

 

I ask you:
Please tell us what Israel is willing to bring to the negotiation table with whomever, PLO, etc.

 

standwithisrael wrote:
I mean, Israel, is the only "conqueror" that is expected to beg the "conquered" side to negotiate with it.

 

I say:
Therefore, you admit that Israel has been the aggressor, the "conqueror" against the Palestinian Arabs?

 

standwithisrael wrote:
Why do you expect Israel to beg?

 

I ask you:
Where did anyone on this forum say they expected Israel to beg?

standwithisrael wrote:
2.

Israel made mistakes.

I asked you earlier:

Please let us know what YOU believe are these mistakes.
What can Israel do to correct those mistakes?
What can Israel do better to bring peace to the region?
Does Israel want to bring peace to the region?
If so, what are the terms of that peace?

 

standwithisrael wrote:
3. Sorry I haven't read this article.
It would be useful to this forum, if you would comment upon the various articles written by Jewish people who disagree with you.

 

standwithisrael wrote:
5. It's easy to be a pacifist, when there is peace.

Now you have pissed me off. You only read the title and maybe you read the quotes I posted from the article. You have no clue here what you are talking about. IF you would have had the decency to read the article before you shot your mouth off,  and then had the courtesy to read the biography of the author, Mr. Jim Wright, you would know he is a retired, 30 year veteran of the United States Navy.

 

The USA has consistently backed Israel throughout the years and especially during the time Mr Wright was in the US Navy. I spent seven years myself in the US Army and I swore to "uphold and defend" the Constitution of the United States. We were the "Guardians at the Gates" so do not give us your crap about pacifists and peace. Only the warrior who has seen a battle and the terrible death and destruction it causes can afford to be a pacifist because only he or she knows the terrible cost to humanity because of the senseless act of war.

 

I can see you refuse to stay on the topic and continue to blast your pro-Zionist propaganda at the rest of us. Just like Israel, you have shown yourself to be intransigent, unwilling to even see or consider another point of view. 

 

I have had enough of your school boy shibboleths, go back to Israel and stay out of Turkey if you hate it so much. Please stay out of the United States also because the tide is turning against you and Israel there also. Soon Israel will have no friends in the world, you will have no big brother USA to protect you, and Israel has managed to squander all the good will the world had toward it over this stupid and senseless issue. Israel has accomplished this in spite of the most virulent and rabid anti-Arab and anti-Muslim rhetoric isn the western world.

 

Good job, only a nation of fools could have accomplished such a senseless and self-defeating act. I wish you good luck, you will need it.

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standwithisrael wrote:

"Your narrative is super pro-Arabic. In our propagandized world it's a pity that it is thought to be neutral."

I accuse you:

Your narrative is super pro-Israel. In our propagandized world it's a pity that it is thought to be neutral.

standwithisrael wrote:

1. Israel agrees to negotiate with the PLO.

 

I ask you:

Please tell us what Israel is willing to bring to the negotiation table with whomever, PLO, etc.

 

standwithisrael wrote:

I mean, Israel, is the only "conqueror" that is expected to beg the "conquered" side to negotiate with it.

 

I say:

Therefore, you admit that Israel has been the aggressor, the "conqueror" against the Palestinian Arabs?

 

standwithisrael wrote:

Why do you expect Israel to beg?

 

I ask you:

Where did anyone on this forum say they expected Israel to beg?

standwithisrael wrote:

2.

Israel made mistakes.

I asked you earlier:

Please let us know what YOU believe are these mistakes.

What can Israel do to correct those mistakes?

What can Israel do better to bring peace to the region?

Does Israel want to bring peace to the region?

If so, what are the terms of that peace?

 

standwithisrael wrote:

3. Sorry I haven't read this article.

It would be useful to this forum, if you would comment upon the various articles written by Jewish people who disagree with you.

 

standwithisrael wrote:

5. It's easy to be a pacifist, when there is peace.

Now you have pissed me off. You only read the title and maybe you read the quotes I posted from the article. You have no clue here what you are talking about. IF you would have had the decency to read the article before you shot your mouth off,  and then had the courtesy to read the biography of the author, Mr. Jim Wright, you would know he is a retired, 30 year veteran of the United States Navy.

 

The USA has consistently backed Israel throughout the years and especially during the time Mr Wright was in the US Navy. I spent seven years myself in the US Army and I swore to "uphold and defend" the Constitution of the United States. We were the "Guardians at the Gates" so do not give us your crap about pacifists and peace. Only the warrior who has seen a battle and the terrible death and destruction it causes can afford to be a pacifist because only he or she knows the terrible cost to humanity because of the senseless act of war.

 

I can see you refuse to stay on the topic and continue to blast your pro-Zionist propaganda at the rest of us. Just like Israel, you have shown yourself to be intransigent, unwilling to even see or consider another point of view. 

 

I have had enough of your school boy shibboleths, go back to Israel and stay out of Turkey if you hate it so much. Please stay out of the United States also because the tide is turning against you and Israel there also. Soon Israel will have no friends in the world, you will have no big brother USA to protect you, and Israel has managed to squander all the good will the world had toward it over this stupid and senseless issue. Israel has accomplished this in spite of the most virulent and rabid anti-Arab and anti-Muslim rhetoric isn the western world.

 

Good job, only a nation of fools could have accomplished such a senseless and self-defeating act. I wish you good luck, you will need it.

1.well you haven't shown that it is. So you can accuse me, but every wise man can see that it is based on nothing.

Israel is ready to withdraw from its own territory. I mean, is there a greater sacrifice for a country? 

I used "" meaning, I don't recognize Israel being a conqueror, a country cannot occupy its own legitimate soil. It's like saying that Turkey occupies Ankara. I only used your terminology.

The expectation in the Middle East is that Israel will freeze its development of its cities. I say that it is illegitimate, to intervene Israel's local issues, and it is putting Israel to beg for the PLO will finally accept to negotiate with it.

I mean, I haven't seen Turkey freezing its development, for an ex-terrorist group.

2.

I told you, Israel should have never recognized The Palestinians as a separate population from the Jordanians.

Now, The Jordanians, don't want to mess with that population either.

3. Sorry, please make short remarks from this article. The debate won't be contributed, from focusing on any biased article.

5. You bring a lot of unrelated biography of many persons, that there relevant to this conflict is questionable.

I'm a working person. I don't have time to read all of these biographies. Please write only things that are relevant. This for example:

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It is off topic, maybe I should not bring this in to it. Hobbit I was referring to this point you made:

 

"Each incident generates more terror, more killing, more hatred."

 

The World Trade Center was attacked in 1993 (so two attacks, 1993 and 2001, not mentioning Pearl Harbor). I don't know of anything that provoked the 1994 attack, except for kicking Saddam out of Kuwait and the Saudi government refusing to let Osama Bin Ladin protect Saudi Arabia and inviting the Americans and Europeans to do it instead. The USA did nothing to invite that attack (the only country the USA invaded before that was Kuwait, to kick out the invaders and then turn it over to its own people). But somebody somewhere conceived that the USA was their enemy no matter what the real facts were. And no matter what the USA does, there will always be people lying awake at night thinking of ways to attack America. And there are lots of people in the middle east who want Israel wiped off the map no matter what Israel does or doesn't do. If they stop fighting with Israel, there will be no war. If Israel stops fighting with them, there will be no Israel.

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