Help with a couple of phrases

[Ken Grubb 1,408]

I'm trying to get my Turkish back (and keep it this time). In the course I'm taking it sometimes doesn't explain things well and there are two phrases I need to check:

 

Geleceği sahi mi?: Does this mean "is he (she, it) really coming?

 

Kalacakları iyi: Does this mean "their staying is good," in the sense that they are going to stay in the future?

 

Kalmayacağınız iyi olmadı: Does this mean "that you were going to stay was not good?"

[saffron 87]

Hi Ken! I'm surprised to see you here with a question!

Geleceği sahi mi , a colloquial expression, a standard version of which is 'sahiden gelecek mi?'means, yes, 'will s/he really come/ is  s/he really coming?'

Kalacakları iyi: this is something in between colloquial and substandard Turkish. The right version is 'kalacak olmaları iyi' which means 'that they will stay is good. Yes, they will stay in future. If it were 'kalmaları iyi', we couldn't tell if they stay or stayed or will stay. We could understand it only when we complete the sentence with the verb: Kalmaları iyi oldu:  'It was good that they stayed'; Kalmaları iyi olacak : it will be good if they stay; Kalmaları iyi /iyidir : It is good that they stay.

Kalmayacağınız iyi olmadı : Likewise , the standard version is: Kalmayacak olmanız iyi olmadı, The first part 'kalmayacak olmanız': that you will not stay / the fact that you will not stay. In the second part, the use of 'olmak' conveys a meaning that the speaker has not expected that. He expected that they would stay. If we say 'kalmayacak olmanız kötü, it means:' that you will not stay is not good'. But here, by conjugating 'olmak' in that form , we draw attention to an outcome, like 'proved to be' /it so happened.

[Ken Grubb 1,408]

Thanks Saffron, that makes sense. Your explanations of other ways to say it also helps and gives me some additional context for the meaning. I got it!

[jae 0]

Hi, I have been reading pages on this site with interest.  I have been communicating with a friend of the family, who is Turkish, for several months.  Whilst I am learning lots there have been occasions where the translation has lead to confusion, we communicate primarily in Turkish as he speaks no English.  Whilst I am managing to get by using various tools I wonder if I could ask for help with the translation of the following as it is vital that there is no dubiety as to its meaning. ne zaman düşünüyosun istanbula gelmek.. I have managed most of the translation, my main area of difficulty is ..düşünüyosun..  any help would be very much appreciated before I send a reply.

 

J

[cayaholic 70]

when do you think you will come to Istanbul?

[jae 0]

Thank you so much.  I thought that is what it said but couldn't be sure.  The difficulty is when I asked the sender if that was what they had intended they told me I was translating it incorrectly but have refused to answer my questions as to what it did say.  Needless to say i thought it a little odd but doubted myself. Now to compose a reply.

 

Thank you for saving my sanity.  

 

J

[Ken Grubb 1,408]

düşünüyosun is an incorrect spelling. It should be  düşünüyorsun, or düşünüyorsunuz if you are addressing someone formally.

[jae 0]

Ken, 

 

Thank you, that would help explain my difficulty in getting a translation.  The sender will only tell me that I have made a mistake translating their message but when asked, on two occasions, to explain what they had intended to say decline to answer. Previous on-line chats with them have always followed a familiar format and covered similar subject matter, this message came out of the blue. Their recent silence suggests they regret sending the message, although will not say as much and that I will not get an explanation. Looking back the conversation as a whole was unusual and brought to an abrupt end when the other person logged off promptly after posting the message, which was kindly translated on here.  It is all very strange.

 

Thank you once again.

 

J      

Ken,

 

I also meant to apologise for tagging my question on to yours, Im a bit of a technofobe and this is the first time I have written on a forum, it wasn't until after I had posted my question I realised I was supposed to start a new topic. I am learning.

 

J 

[Ken Grubb 1,408]

No problem... it's kind of the same topic anyway, both of us need help with Turkish!

[saffron 87]

Hi Jae..

I didn't want to write on this topic at first, as the problem was already solved. But I see there is something that seems to upset you, so I want to clarify a point. The sentence 'Ne zaman düşünüyorsun İstanbul'a gelmek' is not a standard Turkish sentence. The right one is 'Ne zaman İstanbul'a gelmeyi düşünüyorsun' or 'İstanbul'a ne zaman gelmeyi düşünüyorsun. Using 'gelmek' instead of 'gelmeyi', in such a sentence, is a common mistake made by learners of Turkish. Being speakers of Turkish they might have thought that writing it in this way would make it easier for you to understand..

Anyway, I  just wanted to correct it..

[Ken Grubb 1,408]

Thanks Saffron, I thought something else was not quite right about the sentence, but I'm still learning!

[jae 0]

Thank you both so much.  This has been an absolute education for me.

 

Saffron, you are very intuitive,  This one sentence has brought about a mixture of feelings, but clarification in the translation has taken away the nagging doubt in the back of my mind as to the meaning.  What I am left with is confusion in respect of it being sent in the first place and subsequent denial of its meaning but that is in the mind of the sender.    

 

I feel much better thanks to all of you.

 

J          

[saffron 87]

You're welcome

And let me write a short explantion why it should be 'gelmeyi'. 'Gelme' is one of the nouns ( noun of an action) that can be driven from the verb to come, 'gelmek' , and it is the object of the sentence. As an object it is not supposed to be in infinitive form, unlike English, where you can say 'think to come'. But still you can compare:' I thought about cutting my hair', but not '..about to cut'.

It is not only the object, but  the direct object, this is why it takes 'i': Gelme +y+i , where y is a buffer, as you know I guess. (Being the direct object is not the only reason but I don't want to be confusing on this mere example)