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arkadaşlar help me please! (-Suffixes)

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Guest rizkyperdanaid

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Guest rizkyperdanaid

Merhaba arkadaşlar nasılsınız? 

 

I don't understand about this Posted Image

 

1. Merdivendeyken dikkatli ol! -->> -Ken <-- What does the suffix mean in this sentence?

 

2. Gelsin ki görsün = He should come so that he see it, <-- Seriously I'm confused about the translate of this sentence, where "He" come from? Posted Image

   

    I just know like this:

    Gel = Come (gelmek)

  Sin = suffix from sen (you): -sin - sın - sun -sün

  Ki = suffix so that 

  Gör = See (görmek)

  Sun suffix from sen (you): -sin - sın - sun -sün

 

Anyone can help me please .. it's really hard learn Turkish by myself & my english not good too Posted Image

 

çok teşekkür ederim Posted Image

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Well Iky, I can tell you that you should not look for 100 % matching translates between Turkish and English since 2 languages have different grammar structures. I'm not a Turkish Instructor but I'll try to clarify your confussion:

Merdivendeyken dikkatli ol. Ken is the suffix meaning "while". So the translation is "be careful while you are on the stairs".

Gelsin ki görsün - He should come so that he see it. Where he comes from? in this sentence, "he" is the "hidden subject" which is not written with the sentence. You may also translate this sentence as "she should come so the she see it" because there is no differentiation exists about "he" and "she" in Turkish.

hope this helps.

good luck.

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Guest rizkyperdanaid

uhmmm still confused ..

but He/She/it don't have suffix right? bak!

Ben (-ım, -im, -um, -üm) Sen (-sın, -sin, -sun, -sün) O

Bız (-ız, -iz, -uz, -üz) sız (-sınız, -siniz, -sunuz, -sünüz) Onlar (-lar)

why not like this -->> gel ki gör / o gel ki o gör

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------x

btw can you translate for me please 

bacağımı incittim = I hurt my leg (google translate ver.) or My leg hurt?

 
bacak + im + i = leg + my + accusative
incitmek + di + m = hurt + past tense + I
 
confused ..
 
teşekkür ederim ..
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Hi iKy, I have waited for somebody else to reply to your question. As I don't want your question to suspend in the air for long, now I'm writing the answer you need.

Let me define the problem that confuses you. I guess you want to know why the third person singular sometimes takes a suffix and sometimes doesn't. Right? As you can guess, this depends on the tense, mode, etc of the verb you conjugate. The example you gave, 'bak' is simply 'look!' So it is not the third person. If you give a command to the second person singular, the verb root (bak) doesn't take a suffix. Like, come! = gel!, go!= git! sit down! = otur!...

When a command is concerned, this time, the third person singular takes a suffix. Yes, in Turkish it is possible to give a command to a third person..'Gelsin' is such a word. The example in your post is 'gelsin ki' but this is something different. As already translated, it is,  'he should come so that..'. But 'gelsin' alone is a command. How could that be? Just consider the sentence: Tell him to come. In Turkish it is: 'Söyle ona gelsin'.

However, there are two ways, the other one is 'ona gelmesini söyle'. So let's take a closer look at the difference between 'ona gelmesini söyle' and 'söyle ona gelsin'.

To come =gelmek can be changed into noun form, and,as any other noun, it can belong to somebody. (In one of my earlier posts the topic was explained but I forgot which one). So, gelmesi =his coming. 'Ona gelmesini söyle' can be a command or a reminder or an advice. But 'Söyle ona gelsin' is a command. Tell him to come!

Gelsin ki, as I said, is different. 'Ki' makes the difference. A condition is set by 'ki'.

 

You asked 'why 'gel ki gör' but not 'o gel ki o gör'?' I think now you know the answer. 'gel, gör' are second person singular. gel ki gör: come and see.

 

So you can say 'o gelsin, o görsün, etc. but only when you need to draw attention to the person intended. 'Not somebody else, but he should come/see'.

 

Yes,'I hurt my leg' is the right one

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No, iKy, I don't have any idea..Posted Image

 

Yesterday I didn't want to confuse you more and limited the material I wrote. Now the problem seems to be solved, so let me write a few more things about imperatives. In Turkish you can give a command to any grammatical person except yourself! Here is the verb gelmek:

 

Gel (come!)

Gelsin (3. p.singular)

Gelelim (1. p. plural )

Gelin/geliniz (2. p. plural - geliniz is quite formal)

Gelsinler (3. p. plural)

 

This can be confused with the conjugation in 'istek' form. İstek , as a Turkish grammar term (I avoid using English grammar terms) is the noun form of the verbs like to want, to demand, to request..(but not 'wish')

So, let's check the verb gelmek again, in 'istek'  form:

 

Geleyim (1.p singular)

Gelesin (2. p. singular, rarely in use)

Gelsin (3.p.singular)

Gelelim (1.p.plural)

Gelesiniz (2. p. plural, not much common)

Gelsinler (3.p. plural)

 

As you see, 'gelelim',  'gelsin' and 'gelsinler' may be understood as a command or desire, depending on the context.

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Guest rizkyperdanaid
oh tamam tamam I got it ..  practice practice & practice .. çok teşekküler .. more question please :D .. 
 
1. why the Turkish language sentence structure is never irregular?
sometime I found different sentence structure with same meaning ..
example: 
- ben kebabı yiyorum
- kebabı yiyorum ben
- yiyorum kebabı ben
- yiyorum ben kebabı
 
that make me confused if I read with a lengthy sentence, çok zor ..
 
2. why Turkish people speak so fast?
when I watch Turkish movies they are speak too fast haha .. seriously I need Turkish subtitle coz that will be helping me to improved my Turkish ..
 
btw thank you so much I'll learn hard .. çok teşekkür ederim arkadaş ..
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Ok, a final note about imperatives: Like any other language, Turkish, too undergoes a transformation. The two persons, namely second person singular and plural in 'istek' form are rarely used today. You can hear them in songs..

But the imperatives are used to mean the same: 'Ne olur gel' = please do come! With a 'please', we cannot categorize it as a command,  can we? Likewise, 'Tatilde bize gelin' = Visit us on holiday: an invitation, not a command.. However, the grammarians have to wait for sometime to make a new classification. A grammar book has to talk about the rules and new uses cannot  quickly become new rules. Just for that  reason a grammar book can confuse you.

 

The sentence elements , when change their position, change the point of emphasis, just like they do in English.

In order to compare the the 'kebap eating' situations, first we need to know why 'kebabı yiyorum' but not 'kebap yiyorum'? As I often said before, understanding the function of the 'ı/i/u/ü/ is the first step , before going further into the Turkish syntax.

'Kebap yiyiyorum' is the answer to the question: What are you eating? (or may be what are you doing)

But when you say 'kebabı yiyiyorum', you refer to some certain kebap. This changes the whole meaning automatically. What are the possible reasons for such an emphasis?

Use your imagination..

What are you supposed to do with kebap other than eating? Nothing? so why to put an emphasis here, referring to some ceratin kebap? Your friend told you to throw that piece of kebap to the street dogs waiting around. But you said 'I'm eating THE kebap -in question'

Ok, Your friend told you to water the pot flower with the bottle of water you held in your hand. But you said 'suyu içiyorum'= I'm drinking THE water -in question.

İmagine: The waiter brought your kebap, but your friends are still waiting, and you're  waiting, too, so you can start eating together. But finally you changed your idea and decided to eat it when hot. 'Kebabı yiyiyorum' I'm now eating THE kebap -in question. Here, by adding 'ben', you have added another emphasis.  ' Ben kebabı yiyiyorum': 'ok you can wait but I'M eating it now.! In such a situation, 'kebabı yiyiyorum ben' ,  'yiyiyorum kebabı ben', 'yiyiyorum ben kebabı' serve to the same purpose.

In that context or in such a situtaion, there is not much difference between these sentences: once you changed the pattern of words, you emphasise something. On that occassion, everybody knows what you emphasise, the emphasis is on 'ben', because unless an emphasis is needed, 'ben, sen, o, etc is not used, as you know. But still it can be said: 'yiyiyorum kebabı ben has a slightly more emphasis on the action: eating. Please remember the example without 'ben' : Yiyiyorum kebabı: here the emphasis is on your action. You are not throwing it away, you are eating it.

Shortly, just by adding 'ı', you draw attention to some certain thing - the kebap-, and, by adding 'ben' you draw attention to what YOU are doing.

So, these examples alone do not explain the whole story of position and emphasis of the sentence elements. Once you get familiar enough with the Turkish sentence structure, you can easily feel why the position of a word changes. And please don't get an impression that you can change the position of sentence elements so freely as you can do here. By the way I'm eating = Yiyiyorum: while pronouncing two 'yi's one after the other , it is heard as 'yiiyorum'

 

Ha ha..

Are you sure that Turkish speakers talk so fast? Do come to the Fethiye village I lived for three years..

It took me months to understand what they said!

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Guest rizkyperdanaid
tamam tamam arkadaşım .. sağol .. Türkçe çok zor ama çok sevdim .. I'll learn hard .. çok teşekkür ederim
 
btw, do you know about "Ebru Türkçe, Gökkuşağı Türkçe"? where I can download it?
ben sadece Ebru Türkçe 1 ve 2 ders kitabım var, bu kitabı çok iyi ..
 
thank you so much .. 
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Guest rizkyperdanaid

if you don't mind can I ask about Turkish again hehe :D

I'm confused about this sentence, btw can you translate in English please ..

"akşam saat 10:00 oldu mu uykum gelir uyurum"

akşam : evening

saat 10:00 : at 10

oldu : olmak (be) + -du (past tense)

mu : Suffix of question

uykum : uyku (sleep) + m (I / my)?

gelir : gelmek (come) + ir (present)  

uyurum : uyumak (sleep) + r (present) + um (I)

what does this sentence mean? 

çok teşekkür ederim

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Guest rizkyperdanaid

actually this is the question from "izleme testleri, ebru türkçe" ..

 

"akşam saat 10:00 oldu mu uykum gelir . . . . . . .", boşluğu doldurunuz

a. kalkarım

b. uyanırım

c. bakarım

d. uyurum

 

the answer is "d. uyurum" değil mi? but I don't know what's the meaning of this sentence

 

"akşam saat 10.00 olunca uykum gelir uyurum"  I don't have any idea but I will try it

uhmmm ..

olunca: when the *google translate*

uykum : sleepy *google translate*

when sleepy comes, I sleep at 10:00 evening ? ? ? 

 

teşekkür ederim 

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If a teaching medium has  asked this, there must be a way followed already behind it. Words, idioms, adverbs and a really special expression like 'oldu mu' shouldn't be given all together to a beginner. So maybe you should follow their way..if there is a 'way' to follow, instead of using Google translation.

 

Although 'sleepy' is an adjective, not a noun, so not supposed to come or to do anything, you mean more or less what is ment by it.

Many grammar points are included here. First the verb 'olmak' cannot be translated to English readily.

Where does the evening 'fall' when falls? Where do you fall when you fall asleep? Nowhere? So the idiomatic expressions should be learnt as they are. Akşam olunca: When the evening falls, though  the verb 'olmak ' doesn't mean to fall. The verb 'olmak' can be translated in different ways in different contexts. Likewise, my sleep' doesn't come and go but it is said so in Turkish. Uykum gelir: I tend to sleep, I feel like sleeping...

So I fall asleep: uyurum.

Akşam olunca uykum gelir uyurum : I tend to sleep when the evening falls and I fall asleep. The verb 'uyumak' also means to sleep.

Akşam 10.00 olunca. It is clear, isn't it?

The  word 'olunca' is a special form of a verb. You can compare 'sen gelince ışıkları yaktım': I turned on the lights when you came. 'Sen gülünce biz de güldük': When you laughed, we, too, laughed. Please note that we understand the time from the main verb of the sentence.

As for 'oldu mu' , sometimes it can be used instead of verb root+in/ın/un/ün/ + ce/ca. This is a matter of style and and I think it is too early for you to feel that style..

What is meant is 'immediately after'. When you isolate it from the sentence,  'oldu mu' alone is the third person singular of the verb 'olmak' in, past tense,  question form.

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  • 3 weeks later...
Guest rizkyperdanaid

merhaba saffron nasılsın?

 

sorry to disturb you again, I'm really stuck with this suffix, I wanna ask about this question:

 

Aşağıdaki cümlelerin hangisinde "bir işi karşılıklı yapma" anlamı vardır?

a. Faruk'la sık sık mektuplaşırız

b. Çocuk büyüdükçe güzelleşiyor

c. Mustafa hızla iyiliyor

d. Saçlarım beyazlaşıyor

 

-leş -laş, what does the suffix mean?

 

 

çok teşekkür ederim ..

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Faruk'la sık sık mektuplaşırız : 'We exchange letters with Faruk often', so this is the answer you need. Here, 'leş/laş' denotes that there is a mutual activity going on , like selamlaşmak : to exchange greetings; however, you can confuse it with the suffix ış/iş/uş/üş which have a similar function, like in: Faruk'la sık sık yazışırız : We exchange letters (or any other written material) with Faruk often, here the suffix -ış follows the verb yaz+mak; Faruk'la sık sık görüşürüz : We see each other with Faruk often (we meet often), here the suffix -üş follows the verb 'gör+mek'; Faruk'la sık sık buluşuruz , again the suffix -uş fallows the verb 'bulmak'= to find; again what is meant is meeting; thinking Turkishwise, 'we find each other', so  a mutual activity is going on, they 'find' each other, i.e., they meet..

 

The other examples are about the function of 'becoming':

güzelleşmek: to become beautiful

beyazlaşmak: to turn to white (to become white)

iyileşmek : to recover (to become better)

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Guest rizkyperdanaid

tamam anlıyorum you are so helpful thank you so much saffron teşekkürler ..

 
I had read some site/blogs about "isimden fiil yapan yapım ekleri" .. 
 
what's the difference between suffix -leş, -la, & -ar ?
 
 
 
& can you give some example sentence about "etken", "dönüşlü", "edilgen", "işteş", "geçişli"
 
because I have no idea about this question:
 
1. "her yaz tatilinde Türkiye'ye gidilir", Yuraki cümledeki fiilin çatısı nedir?
a. etken
b. dönüşlü
c. edilgen
d. işteş
 
2. "iki kardeş hasretle kucaklaştılar", cümlesindeki fiil için aşağıdakilerden hangisi doğrudur?
a. geçişli
b. dönüşlü
c. işteş
d. edilgen
 
 
çok teşekkür ederim ..
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Hi Iky, I'd like to help you but , when you, yourself,  define the problem , you make it dificult to solve it. First I should understand how you define the problem and why you do so.

A language learning process should be based on some organized method to follow. I cannot see what you know, and what you fail to get. 

 

Your question about the structure of the Turkish verbs covers an extensive area of grammar.. In other words, it is not a matter of few examples, which in fact is not possible because there is NO one-to-one correspondence between the structural concepts of Turkish verbs and those of English. I cannot give an example for something which doesn't exist..

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Guest rizkyperdanaid
oh tamam .. uhmm .. I learn Turkish by myself, so I didn't really know how the learning process should be .. I started learn Turkish with used Rosetta Stone, after that I learn about Turkish grammar from many blogs & memorized many vocabulary, a few months ago I found some Turkish materials (Ebru Turkçe & Gökkuşağı Türkçe), & in there many Turkish suffix, Turkish formula, etc that I didn't know (ex: like -ken, -leş, -laş) .. & google translate not too much help .. just like now, I found another question sentences with suffix that I didn't know:
 
altı çizili kelimelerin hangisinde emir anlamı yoktur?
a. şu işleri hemen bitiriver
b. çocuğu okuldan mutlaka alıver
c. Öğrencileri hemen buraya çağırıver
d. çocuk yataktan düsüverdi
 
& I used google translate (şu işleri hemen bitiriver), mr.

Google said "Immediately following jobs bitiriver", see ..

btw can you explain about this question, what is -iver, hehe :D
 
so what should I do now? give me some advice please .. thank you so much saffron :) çok teşekkür ederim
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I can see from your questions that you're trying to teach yourself, but even than, you need to have a 'self-teaching guide'..

You define a problem from what you understand, as what you understand is wrong, the problem definition is wrong, shortly, you will end up only in confusion, keeping yourself from going further. What should you do? I have no idea about the books or methods on the market. Only on touristic corners I happen to see some 'quick guides', which have no educational value, and risky for those who want to study Turkish seriously: A wrong impression is very hard to correct in language.

 

Bitiriver: Please finish. Surprised? Yes, in Turkish 'please=lütfen' is not the whole story of asking for something gently, as quick guides write. Again, structure and meanings should be given in a logically organized manner. When you ask for something from your friend (not a person on a formal occassion), you rarely say 'lütfen' : Yapar mısın? Yapıver, Yapsana, are only three examples of asking for something in a friendly talk, these are never commands (emir).

However, 'düşüvermek' tells us that the child fell quickly and unexpectedly;actually, although the context is different, the above forms (bitiriver, alıver, çağırıver) share something common with 'düşüverdi'. 'iver' is an emphsis on the process: a quick and easy process, the child fell, in a moment, how come you failed to see? or, 'please do it for me,  I hope it is an easy and quick thing to do': this is what is meant..

So Iky, unlike what you think, Turkish suffixes are not formulas which onced solved the rest is clear You need a good book giving all these things in a context.

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Guest rizkyperdanaid

yes you're absolutely right, but the problem is uhmm in here in my city we don't have Turkish course, & we don't have Turkish dictionary in bookstore, so I'm very lucky found this site TurkeyCentral.com hehe, I wish I can find a Turkish course here or a Turkish teacher in here my city.

 

well, thanks for everything .. seriously I'm in confusion now haha .. but if I find something new suffix can I ask you again please :D

 

çok teşekkür ederim ..

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Iky, I have a story for you..

Just imagine yourself struggling with the verb structures (voices). The last thing you have learned is the passive voice, ‘oh it is simple’ you say, ‘bilmek is to know, bilinmek is to be known, that’s it! Then you try other verbs, görmek-görünmek, ‘yeah, sure, to see and to be seen! But there is a problem. You recall that there is görülmek, too. ‘If görünmek is to be seen, what is görülmek, then?’How many to-be-seens are there in Turkish?

 

With no answer in your mind, you fall asleep on the chair you are studying.. In your restless sleep, the verbs come to your dream, one by one, challenging you: ‘Put us into passive voice!’ As you feel cold sleeping on the chair, you say ‘ok, let me try to put on something : Giymek, and giyinmek. ‘Really?’ yells your jacket from the corner you threw, ‘let me see how you put me on!’

-Why, ceketimi giydim’

-Good. Now make it passive.

- Ceketim giyindi

-Ha ha ha ! a laughter comes from your wardrobe, ‘what did your jacket put on? Another jacket? Ha ha a jacket with four sleeves!

-???

 

In Turkish folk tales, a white bearded old man has the habit of visiting people to help, in their dreams..

This time an old Turkish grammarian comes to you:

-Ok, my son, what is your problem?

You ask hurriedly, before he disappears:

- Is giyinmek the passive voice of giymek?

-Nope.

-Why bilinmek is passive, then?

-Because it is passive. And you have one more question left.

-What is giyinmek, then?

-My, son, my time  has almost expired. I can only give you a clue: It is neither intransitive, nor transitive.

-WHAT? Neither transitive nor intransitive?

-Do it yourself, says the old man and goes out of sight.

 

Excited by his visit, you wake up, and start studying again..

Humm. What was a transitive verb? It takes a direct object, ok. The action effects that object, good. I paint something or drive my car, they are effected, simple. And the intransitive. No direct object. I walk, it rains, peace followed, ok, what is so confusing here? If I put on my jacket, my jacket is effected by my action (maybe I shouldn’t have thrown it away like a bag). But nothing is effected when I say giyinmek yet it is not intransitive! Just a minute, what did the old man say? Do it yourself. A-ha! Yourself! That’s the clue! I dressed myself! It is me who is effected! I am doing something and I am effected by it as well! Giyindim: I dressed myself, but it seems Turks don’t say ‘myself’ but they use one of their magical suffixes

 

Now you feel relaxed and decide to go out to get some fresh air. Don’t forget to put on your clever jacket, it is almost November now.

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Guest rizkyperdanaid

merhaba GDB abi .. nasılsın? how have you been?

thank you, I will check it out .. teşekkürler abi ..

and here are some sites I use *highly recommended* :harika:

http://www.turkishlanguage.co.uk/

https://sites.google.com/site/learningturkishsite/

vay! Posted Image bir öykü, tamam Saffron .. şimdi anlıyorum ben, sen çok iyi bir Türkçe öğretmensin Posted Image  çok teşekkür ederim, I will study hard :coffee:

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