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I am moving into a new apartment as this one is near to my workplace.

Today, when I was carrying some of my luggage into my new room, my neighbor opened his door. He was at least 60 judging by his looks. He stared at me and my friend suspiciously and then started to ask questions. I didn't quite catch the conversation between him and my friend. However, I could clearly feel his unhappiness and unfriendliness because he was definitely muttering. My friend seemed pretty embarrassed.Posted Image

Later I asked my friend what was going on. He told me that he did not welcome my living here. I asked whether he was unhappy because I am from China. My friend said he did not welcome any single man living next to his door. i was surprised to know that. My friend also added that single men are more easily to be refused when they are renting houses in Turkey.

I am feeling a little bit down. Posted ImagePosted ImagePosted ImagePosted ImageI said Merhaba and smiled really nicely to him. He just shut the door in front of my face.

.

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I'm sorry to hear that ConanPosted Image but it's not just single man. In fact it's even worse if a woman is single and wants to rent anywhere. It can be extremely difficult as one of our females found out when trying to find somewhere to rent in Izmir recently.

He may be just a grumpy old man and may be alright once he gets used to you.

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Speaking of being single, I start to wonder where this intolerance against single people comes from.

I don't really know what the situation is like in western countries, but in China, if a person still remains single after exceeding a certain age, he/she will be labeled as "failure" no matter how successful he or she in other aspects. Neighbors begin to gossip, parents start to worry, and friends start to joke. This is particularly true for single women. Girls may start to feel pressure from the age of 23 (or earlier), and this pressure becomes tremendous once they pass the age of 25. Parents, relatives, or anyone they may have a connection with, would lecture on them and arrange countless blind dates for them. These single women are generally called "leftover women".

Single men are treated no better. The good thing is, people generally believe it is not too late for a man to get married as long as he does not pass 30. (I am 24 so I don't face much pressure right now.) However, If a man still remains single after he reaches the age for marriage, he will be regarded as an "unfilial" son. Traditionally, having no heir is considered to be the most serious way of being unfilial in China.

Here in Turkey, I find it equally difficult, if not more, for single people to survive. They are even having trouble renting a house???

I HATE all this nonsense. What is the big deal about being single?? Whether or not a person gets married or when a person decides to marry is something entirely personal. Why can't they just have the slightest respect to someone's personal life? A person will get married when he/she wants to do so!! In what way has their being single affected others' life??

I just cannot understand it!

Not at all!

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I think people feel that single men may have noisy parties and also bring women back to the apartment and that single women may bring men back. This is a mainly Moslem country with a strict moral code so you can see their point of view.

This has brought back a recollection of when I was sharing a flat with two other teachers during my early days in Turkey and the school owner received complaints from neighbours that we were having men in the apartment. The owner was OK about it as he knew that the men were our fiancés.

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I think people feel that single men may have noisy parties and also bring women back to the apartment and that single women may bring men back. This is a mainly Moslem country with a strict moral code so you can see their point of view.

This has brought back a recollection of when I was sharing a flat with two other teachers during my early days in Turkey and the school owner received complaints from neighbours that we were having men in the apartment. The owner was OK about it as he knew that the men were our fiancés.

I see, Sunny. I don't blame them for that if their religion believes so. Posted Image

I am a quiet person. I don't have parties at home. I certainly do not bring women back because this is not that acceptable in China either.

Now I just wish things would get better once my neighbor starts to know me.

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Just take it slowly. Remember that most Turks haven't travelled abroad and what they know of foreigners they have learnt from the TV, that they leap into bed together at the drop of a hat, they get drunk etc. so you can hardly expect them to welcome us with open arms.

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Speaking of being single, I start to wonder where this intolerance against single people comes from.

I don't really know what the situation is like in western countries, but in China, if a person still remains single after exceeding a certain age, he/she will be labeled as "failure" no matter how successful he or she in other aspects. Neighbors begin to gossip, parents start to worry, and friends start to joke. This is particularly true for single women. Girls may start to feel pressure from the age of 23 (or earlier), and this pressure becomes tremendous once they pass the age of 25. Parents, relatives, or anyone they may have a connection with, would lecture on them and arrange countless blind dates for them. These single women are generally called "leftover women".

Single men are treated no better. The good thing is, people generally believe it is not too late for a man to get married as long as he does not pass 30. (I am 24 so I don't face much pressure right now.) However, If a man still remains single after he reaches the age for marriage, he will be regarded as an "unfilial" son. Traditionally, having no heir is considered to be the most serious way of being unfilial in China.

Here in Turkey, I find it equally difficult, if not more, for single people to survive. They are even having trouble renting a house???

I HATE all this nonsense. What is the big deal about being single?? Whether or not a person gets married or when a person decides to marry is something entirely personal. Why can't they just have the slightest respect to someone's personal life? A person will get married when he/she wants to do so!! In what way has their being single affected others' life??

I just cannot understand it!

Not at all!

I obviously cannot speak for all western countries but definitely in the UK there is no stigma whatsoever to being single. However, the UK is multicultural and many cultures want their single people married. So arranged marriages still take place for example.

The UK law allows single people to have normal lives, they buy property , adopt or foster children do whatever couples do, Of course in the UK many people live together without marriage.

As for your new neighbour I hope that as he comes to know you, he will see that you are a hardworking decent man and mellow towards you.Posted Image

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Oh, Conan, I am so sorry to hear this! You seem so nice and sweet. I would be proud and consider myself very lucky and blessed to call you my neighbor!

Let's assume your friend is telling you the truth and not sparing your feelings- that he's not just an Asian-hating jerk.

I think Turkish tradition is that you go from your parent's house to your own once you get married. To live on your own being single may be associated with everything "modern" and that being single and living independently is turning your back on your family. Many of the "modern" people are not as religious and older people may have that stereotype of this being the reason that the world is going down the drain, so to speak.

I'm not judging at all, of course!!! Just giving you a perspective (not even mine). I bet Americans have an even worse reputation. Now, the USA is fighting for same-sex marriage. I bet your neighbor would LOVE me!

Maybe if you let some time pass and make a few nice overtures to the man, he may warm up to you and realize you and your modern living is not the reason for the downfall of civilization!

So, you have 6 years left, huh? I would think with China and its attempt to control population, you'd be considered ultra-responsible for not procreating. But I've read that now, there's a huge shortage of females and they've lifted the ban in certain provinces. Oops. Got off topic. My bad.

In the States, there's still the stigma, too. If you're not "set up" with a family, people may presume that there's some personality flaw with you. Or that you're gay. I know I had a huge crisis when I hit thirty with no prospects. Crazy, what society's mores can do to one's psyche...

I hope you have some luck with your cranky neighbor!

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I've faced the same thing, but it's only when I was looking for an apartment and the property agent said a landlord wouldn't rent to single men. I agree, it's an irrational prejudice but one we face in Turkey. I guess your neighbor things there should be some housing complex where only single men can live, and that you should go there!

Maybe you will be the one who changes your neighbor's prejudice, and this will have a positive outcome after all.

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On 4/21/2013 at 4:09 PM, TaterTot said:

Oh, Conan, I am so sorry to hear this! You seem so nice and sweet. I would be proud and consider myself very lucky and blessed to call you my neighbor!

Let's assume your friend is telling you the truth and not sparing your feelings- that he's not just an Asian-hating jerk.

I think Turkish tradition is that you go from your parent's house to your own once you get married. To live on your own being single may be associated with everything "modern" and that being single and living independently is turning your back on your family. Many of the "modern" people are not as religious and older people may have that stereotype of this being the reason that the world is going down the drain, so to speak.

I'm not judging at all, of course!!! Just giving you a perspective (not even mine). I bet Americans have an even worse reputation. Now, the USA is fighting for same-sex marriage. I bet your neighbor would LOVE me!

Maybe if you let some time pass and make a few nice overtures to the man, he may warm up to you and realize you and your modern living is not the reason for the downfall of civilization!

So, you have 6 years left, huh? I would think with China and its attempt to control population, you'd be considered ultra-responsible for not procreating. But I've read that now, there's a huge shortage of females and they've lifted the ban in certain provinces. Oops. Got off topic. My bad.

In the States, there's still the stigma, too. If you're not "set up" with a family, people may presume that there's some personality flaw with you. Or that you're gay. I know I had a huge crisis when I hit thirty with no prospects. Crazy, what society's mores can do to one's psyche...

I hope you have some luck with your cranky neighbor!

Thank you TT. I would be honored to be your neighbor too! :D

Your information about Turkish tradition is really helpful. I really should have read more about Turkish traditions so I could better fit in the life in Turkey. :shock: I understand that older people are generally more conservative and have high respect for traditions. (That's why I always have arguments over Mao's history with my grandma. Oops, get off topic too. Sorry. LOL)

Anyway, I will always be nice to my neighbor and try to leave him a good impression. :)

Speaking of birth control policy in China, TT, I can tell you the situation varies greatly depending on where you live in China. I have a sister who is 5 years younger than me.:lol: My parents were not fined for giving birth to my sister because it is legal in my hometown to have a second child(as long as there is a five year span). My roommate in college has two sisters. He told me that his local government allows that. However, in other parts of the country, the government has strict control. Forced abortion is very rare, though. (I HATE FORCED ABORTION. SO INHUMANE.) Normally, disobedient parents face a fine. Government officials, teachers, employees of state-owned companies are generally forbidden to have a second child.

On 4/21/2013 at 4:34 PM, Ken said:

I've faced the same thing, but it's only when I was looking for an apartment and the property agent said a landlord wouldn't rent to single men. I agree, it's an irrational prejudice but one we face in Turkey. I guess your neighbor things there should be some housing complex where only single men can live, and that you should go there!

Maybe you will be the one who changes your neighbor's prejudice, and this will have a positive outcome after all.

:( Oh so sorry to hear that you have been through this too, Ken. It seems my friend was telling me the truth then.

My landlord didn't have a problem with it so I didn't really know there was such a prejudice here until I moved in. I don't think I have a choice now. I will try my best to change my neighbor's view on me.:D

On 4/21/2013 at 4:43 PM, Aston said:

At my cousins second wedding several years ago my grandmother (fathers side) leaned over, touched my hand and said "She's found two , there has to be someone for you...............some where".:wacko:

Forgive me Aston, but your post made me laugh out so loud. :D:D:D

On 4/21/2013 at 4:44 PM, Turko said:

You are in wrong place, Conan. That thing probably wouldn't happen If you were in Istanbul. Where I live here in Istanbul is like kinda united nations.

Istanbul is ready for multiculturalism, but Anatolia is not ready yet

Yeah. Istanbul is a very modern city. People there are probably less traditional I guess.

On 4/21/2013 at 6:02 PM, Fil said:

Don't let it bother you, conan, there are unwelcoming old gits all over the world. If you live in UK you might meet these two...

Thank you Fil. This video is hilarious!!!:lol::lol::lol::lol:

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  • 1 month later...

a sort of instinct to protect the environment and family

because single person can invite friends girl / boy or organize a party.

whereas non-married couples to remain together in the same place is not suitable Islam and Turkish culturetaking measures in this case

you are not only a specialrental housing is difficult to find a single personeven if turkish :)

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You won't have as much trouble with that in Izmir. I've moved around several times in the Izmir area and only once did I come across a landlord who didn't want single people. As a ratio that was probably about one in a hundred properties. People in Izmir tend to be much more cosmopolitan and modern in their thinking compared to Adana. For anyone moving there to work with NATO, the housing office has lists of properties ready to rent to anyone. Also, landlords in Izmir are much more used to military and civilian employees who come unaccompanied.

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Hi Conan, as a Turkish member I feel I can write a few words that can make the situation better for you..

First of all, being single is an anthropological issue, I assume..

Because in primates -I dont remember exactly which species of primates- a male primate has to prove that 'he' is reliable to hold a baby in his arms.

When he holds the baby, as allowed by the female primate, then other males prefer not to touch him, they let him alone..

A security isssue, this is. Interestingly enough, in human societies, a male with children recieve more protection from the society. I cannot make a list of 'socities', and I'm not an anthropologist, but there is such a trend, in general.

As to Turkey, what I wrote is exctly true. A married man with children recieve protection; for instance, if one of two employees has to leave the job because of the budgetary policy of a company, and if one of them is single, it is almost sure that the single one will loose his job. Because the other 'has children'. I can make a list of situations like that.

But, in your case, we should take into account another aspect: When a single man moves to the nextdoor of a 'family', he is considered as a potential danger for the female members of the family. Will he bother them? This is a very serious issue. If that single neighbour attempts to bother any female member of the family, the issue will not be settled by a simple 'get out of here'. Instead, a quarrel first, an attempt to beat the offender, or even more serious things afterwords. So no body wants to bother himself with a 'potential problem' around. Shortly, Conan, a single man living nextdoor is a potential headache..

But the rest of story is not so bad. Turkish people are interesting and it is not easy to know them in a short time. If that single neighbour proves that he is a gentleman, and in particular if he is young enough,it is almost sure that he will be treated very dearly: Oh the poor single boy! let's call him for diner! Does he need any thing? etc etc..

So please don't worry. If your neighbour doesn't have personal problems, I mean if s/he is not a trouble maker, soon you will be treated dearly 'Oh that boy! he is far from his country! He is Chinese? He even doesn't know the language here! Can he eat what we eat? Let's help him..' You can expect somebody knocking on your door with a cup of soup in her hand.

The only thing you have to pay attention is, if you want a peaceful life there, don't let girls visit you, this will annoy them, they will say ' we cannot tell how many people, boy or girl, come and go!' Even if they happen to see two or three occassional visitors, they will start complaing : ' so many people come and go'. Don't ask me why, these are the clues for a life free of trouble!

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he has the right to have a partner like everyone and welcome his girlfriend at his home . saffran , ı agree wıth you to some extent but he mustnt worry much about other people's view . it doesnt mean that he cant lead his normal life in turkey as he chose to live in here .

if he takes heed of what neıghbours think , he cant enjoy the life in turkey and after a whıle he wıll feel regret livıng ın turkey . ı would suggest hım to invite his gırlfrıend to his home . ı am sure they will get used to it in a short time . maybe all we need is to have people who have courage to break the tradıtıons .

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