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What Are Our Kids?

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I sounds to me as if you've done a pretty good job, IWB. In my opinion a laid back approach is always better than the 'getting your knickers in a twist over everything' approach. You see on forums, and elsewhere, parents agonising over the most trivial little things (as well as big things) and you wonder how neurotic their child is going to end up.

Thanks, Sunny =] i agree to a point; the way i see it there's "laid back" and there's LAID BACK; it's one thing to go easy on your kid and let them develop their own mind; it's another thing entirely to be "absent" and let yr kids run wild and do whatever the hell they want; that's as bad as being overprotective, if not worse (as an educator i see both all the time). i take it easy on mine, but i'm there as much as i can be and do my best to take an active role in her life without controlling it.
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my spawn spent her first 8 years in cali and traveling to turkey every summer. at home my ex spoke turkish and i spoke english with her so (as i mentioned) she grew up fluent in both languages and had

In my book it doesn't matter if someone is black, white, blue or green with orange spots, we are all human beings (with a few exceptions) and should be treated as such. It is behaviour that is importa

Luckily I know many people who wouldn't want to interact with people who do not want their children to interact with mixed other children or immigrant ones.

Posted Images

IWB- thanks for taking the time to write. My daughter, who's seven, is from a previous situation and I got lucky with her. She's very sensitive and consciencious. I, too, am a former RC. I was off the wagon for years and found Buddhism to fit the bill pretty well. But I did decide to convert. It's not forced upon her in ANY way. It's difficult that her bio dad won't let her go to Turkey for fear that we may never return her. But I don't think he actually believes that. I think it's just spite and ego.

Anyway, about my 1/2 Turk, he's only 8.5 months now. So far, my dice rolling is really good. He's also a little joy. Neither one of my kids has been a crier and both seem (so far) to be happy kids without a huge will one needs to curb. Your story about your progeny is very uplifting. It makes me eager to finally move to Turkey. We have to wait until my daughter is college age. But that will be good timing, for my son will make the move from elementary to middle, just like all his friends. Just one small detail- he'll go to a different building... in another country. I have fantasies that on spring breaks, his friends from PA will visit us. Did that ever happen with you?

As far as parenting goes, I think your approach is much like mine. Parent to instill self esteem, but with boundaries. As a general rule, if one has to go one way or another, I think a little over parenting is preferred to under parenting. I've taught middle school for 13 years, and I see what both do and trust me- the second always has WAY more dire consequences. There's nothing more obnoxious than a child who has the sense of entitlement without any discipline. Do you know about the marshmallow test? All about delayed gratification. I'm a firm believer.

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I agree totally IWB. When I said laid back I didn't mean hands off. Children need structure in their lives and certain social rules which they learn by example. Like being polite, sitting at a table for meals, not interrupting adults when they are talking etc. I spent a lot of time with mine doing craft things and down on the floor with railways and farms, helping to make dens and reading bedtime stories. TV was strictly limited, in fact we didn't have a TV until my daughter was 5.

TT I didn't realise that your son was so young. The way you were talking I thought that he was at least in nursery school. Posted Image

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This should not trouble you to the extent that it is. Based on your previous posts you clearly have no idea of what you are talking about. You have all these worries for your child when the only one that has a problem with the identity of your child is you. (don’t say no, you’re the one that asked the question) We live in a world where almost everyone, beside you knows that there are more than three races.

To help you with what your fascination I would recommend you look at a map, research documents from scholarly sources (not Wikipedia) or see a doctor. You referenced a Sci-Fi film? For a second I had to ask myself are you trolling?

Also please do not say this is a huge deal in America. I believe we are beyond that right now. For the least part most of us can identify with an identity that we feel comfortable with.

And to answer you, it is sad that you are asking this; Sad that this worries you so much. I will tell you not to worry because your child is growing up in 2013. You say the government is monitoring minorities in the classroom etc…. sheesh… you being a teacher, I would hope you know that ESL determines your level of English primarily when one did not attend an American school in the early stages. Look at it this way…English as a second language when you’re not very good at it. I had a friend that grew up in an English speaking Caribbean country and they had to be tested when entering college to determine if they required further teachings in English. They did not. They moved on to regular classes just like the average American. Also Americans who were not good in English (this happens) had to take the same class! (my point is they could have been from the Congo and once they passed the test, they would not be considered ESL) they would just be considered bilingual and so what? This is something that happens how many times in your life? Perhaps once when entering college, it is not a disability. Maybe you can use your teaching skills and make sure this does not happen.

I also recommended you learn the difference between culture and ethnicity. They do have similarities but there are major differences. There’s also a nice word in the dictionary hopefully you know it. It’s called “decent” I am black my fiancée is a Turk. My child will be of both black and Turkish decent. Hopefully they don’t get tripped up in life when they have to check mark a box asking what they are.

Also theoretically speaking you are not special. No one is. Most of us can identify with more than one ethnic group.

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descent. black and turkish descent. no need for hostilities, let's be decent toward each other!

IWB I don't think Riley meant to be hostile, at least I did not read it that way. Sometimes we have to say it as it is. I too found it sad that Tatertot wanted to label her child and had (especially for a teacher) so little understanding of race, ethnicity and culture.

There are many foreign women posting on forums who are married to Turks and they live with their husbands in the USA, UK, Europe Australia etc. These women become veritable Turkophiles, shopping to find Turkish food, learning to cook Turkish food, learning to speak Turkish , becoming Muslim which is not necessary and without understanding the ramifications, calling their children Turkish names in fact bending over backwards to keep their Turk happy.

Would there be all this angst if the women had married an Italian or a Venezuelan or a South African or Jamaican etc

You see on forums, and elsewhere, parents agonising over the most trivial little things (as well as big things) and you wonder how neurotic their child is going to end up.

So true.Posted Image

Riley was also correct by pointing out that once a person passed an ESL test, they would not be considered ESL they would just be considered bilingual. This

happens all the time in the UK especially after people pass their citizenship test.

That's just my take on it Posted Image

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i agree, i guess it was just stated pretty bluntly which, like you said, isn't necessarily a bad thing in itself; of course this whole string has made for some good discussion, like most strings on TC! that's why we're here, right right??? =]

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I think people need to stop watching fox news and reading the Daily Mail.

i agree, i guess it was just stated pretty bluntly which, like you said, isn't necessarily a bad thing in itself; of course this whole string has made for some good discussion, like most strings on TC! that's why we're here, right right??? =]

I got your back bro'! You go back to the bar and sort out the pitcher whilst I sharpen my Swiss army knife.
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Wow, that was quite a response, there, riley.

I don't recall ever saying I was worried- or special. I was just trying to have an intersting conversation. And my comment about SciFi was from IWB's comment about just a bunch of brown people in the future. Nothing more; nothing less.

As far as your ESL info, much is incorrect. And I am not basing it on any online site, wiki or otherwise. It's from over a decade of professional experience. To correct:1. Once labeled ESL, you are always ESL. You may exit the program after reaching the highest level, but it's not as simple as you state.2. ESL is NOT a disability.3. Going to an American school does not mean you are a native speaker. That's the whole point. There are tons of Mexican students here (IWB can back me up) who are citizens because they are born here, yet can't read or write proficently in English because they do not have the reinforcement at home. Yes, my son will have that, but you have taken a complex issue and dismissed it with a "sheesh."And suggesting I see a doctor? Yes, I do find that hostile.

I haven't attacked anybody and was just wondering about how people fill out forms and identigy their children. Heck, which box you check could result in scholarship opportunities! If you're lucky enough to be 1/8 Native American, your tuition is covered!

Didn't mean to come off all neurotic. Just curious.

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If you thought I was being hostile that's unfortunate. Maybe I should have inserted a bunch of smiley faces? I don't know.

1) You are always ESL? It is not a term that is used to lable someone. Tell me if this makes sense... "I am ESL"? I have never seen any governement form asking, "Are you ESL?" The term is bilingual. If you are not so great at English you can take an ESL class. A foreign student can take an ESL class and become fluent hence the need for an ESL class :/ once they accomplish proficiency they are just simply bilingual.

2) I do agree having English as a second language is not a disability.

it is not a disability

3) Obliviously going to an American school does not mean you are fluent in English. I even stated that there are Americans that do end up taking the same English classes a foreign student may have to take.

Also Americans who were not good in English (this happens) had to take the same class!

4) There are many types of doctors. The one I was thinking about is a Genealogist. They will be able to tell you specifically what you can identify with. How is that being hostile?

And you say you are looking for scholarships? Really? :/ hmmm correct me if I am wrong but your children in reference are 7yrs old and 8 months.

Good luck with your search. I hope I wasn't to hostile for you. Posted Image

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Well, it looks like we're on the road to a better understanding. Posted Image

1. Yes, it is true that an ESL will never have the same language acquisition as a native speaker. or example, no mater HOW fluent I get in Turkish, it will never get to the point as a native Turk. I guess that's also cleared up for me; my son will be a native bilingual. So thanks for helping me to realize that.

2. Good to know we can move past that one.

3. Do not confuse fluency with proficiency. You must be fluent to enter college. But yes, some mediocre native English students may have to take a remedial writing course to enter college. I think that's a shame since they graduated high school and it is suggested they can't write very well. But colleges are tuition grubbers. They'll give anybody the chance to take their money and then flunk out. Just goes to show how NCLB failed. Thanks, Bush... You may find teh following study interesting and the references useful if you are interested in how some of my point of view is shared by others in the field. http://www.nova.edu/ssss/QR/QR14-4/hu.pdf

4. I was never under the impression that there was a genetic incompatibility. Otherwise, I never would have had a child with someone if there were a potential problem. In fact, I HAVE seen a geneticist for birth defects that have run in my family NOT due to race. "Race" is an outdated concept, anyway. I suppose multi ethnic would be more appropriate/PC. After all, we got rid of "mulatto" now... And yes, I do reserve my right to find the concept of how the perception of culture evolves.

Scholarships won't even enter into my son's situation. By the time he's college age, we'll be in Turkey and (hopefully) we'll not need to pay tuition, presuming the same system will be in place. And, I intend to teach English (to ESL!) and would tend to think that he'd attend where I teach.

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This is my last post about this. You do not need to be fluent in English to enter college.... I am not confusing fluency and proficiency. You do have to obtain a high level of proficiency in a language before you can be deemed bilingual so (profiency or fluency in a second language = being bilingual) .... sheesh... and if you go to a genealogist that does not mean there is something wrong with you. If you want to find out exactly where your roots came from they will be able to tell you exactly where you came from by looking at your DNA and all that good stuff. Let me put it simply, they create a "family tree" but in a much more detailed aspect.

I intend to teach English (to ESL!)

lol Posted Image That will be awesome... but the correct way to say it is, "I inetend to teach an ESL class".

You say

Yes, it is true that an ESL will never have the same language acquisition as a native speaker.

You cannot refer to someone as "an ESL."

Let's just agree to disagree.



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Hey, now listen, this forum is not to pick holes in each other's grammar, spelling or ways of saying things or we Brits could have a field day with you Americans, being the original speakers of English! Posted Image

This is a friendly forum and we want it to stay that way so no more sniping please, or you'll get your wrist slapped. Posted Image

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Wise words from Sunny.

PonP is not regarded as au fait on this here board. We like to think we can help each other out with problems on this board, not deride them.

We move on, become stronger and like me and IWB we wrestle naked in the long dunes at sunset.

This goes for me aswell, I don't agree with what many people think/say on this board but if they want my help I'll go out of my way to help them.

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I don't know to whom Sunny was referring, but it was not I was not picking out grammar mistakes. I do enough of that with me students! I was only correcting content misconceptions. I could care less about one's grammar unless it impedes communication.

Such as the difference between a genealogist and a geneticist. I now no longer know what riley means... Posted Image

As for the distinction of ESLs and other issues germane to the conversation, I'm interested in riley's expertise in the field.

I really don't want to get into a contest about whose English is more correct. It all depends whether you are a prescriptive of descriptive grammarian. But if you really want to get technical, Americans have more traditional grammar rules than Brittish since we have been under less influence of changes that were made due to the Brittish industrial revolution. One's not better than the other, mind you. It's more about education and class than it is geographical location. Posted Image

BTW- I totally agree about mixing of cultures. I'd be so bored if we all were the same. What would be the point of traveling???

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I was not referring to you TT and anyway most of it was said tongue in cheek. I couldn't care less about people's grammar and spelling or semantics so long as we're always civilised, polite and respectful, unlike a number of other forums.

No, I don't want to get technical as it would be a waste of time as you would continue to think one way and I would continue to think another so we'll leave it as it is. Posted Image

Don't blame the mods IWB. :)

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