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I'm sure I'm not the only who's had this conversation...

Just what are our kids? Do you consider them "mixed race?" In some respects, the fact that I'm American and he's NATIVE Turkish makes our son multi-cultural (and, inshallah, bi-lingual in the future), but Turk is not really a race. Neither is Arabic, for that matter, but in today's society, I'm willing to put it out there that a Muslim/Arab receives as much prejudice as a person of color, thanks to all the media coverage of terrorism around the world. But "Arab" is not a box to check on any forms. There's a whole lot of attention about Latin, but that's not even a race; it's an ethnicity. (Hmmm.... to do list: find out whom I can contact to persuade them to change that...)

So, is Turk considered Asian, since it's Asia minor and on the maps? But if you research, some resources say that Turks are Caucasian, but others say they come from the Mongols, so are Asian.

Maybe I'll just have my son check the "Other" box. Posted Image

What do you think?

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my spawn spent her first 8 years in cali and traveling to turkey every summer. at home my ex spoke turkish and i spoke english with her so (as i mentioned) she grew up fluent in both languages and had

In my book it doesn't matter if someone is black, white, blue or green with orange spots, we are all human beings (with a few exceptions) and should be treated as such. It is behaviour that is importa

Luckily I know many people who wouldn't want to interact with people who do not want their children to interact with mixed other children or immigrant ones.

Posted Images

Turks are Caucasians and therefore white. Whites are considered to be those who are Mediterranean, Nordic, Slavic, Semitic, Turkish, Iranian, Pakistani etc Races do exist, but the term applies more generally to groups of vaguely similar ethnicity and culture such as: Whites, Blacks, Native Americans, Polynesians, Asians, and Mongoloids

Ethnicity is a better term to use than race and one regularly used in the UK by professionals.

I would consider a child born of a parent who is predominately white e.g. those whites from UK , Europe US, Scandinavia, Canada, Australia New Zealand etc and a parent who is a Turk to be white. Not mixed race, not white other, simply white.

Tatertot sorry to disagree but your child is not multicultural. The exact definition of multicultural means relating to, or constituting several cultural or ethnic groups within a society.

If you must label your child then the most politically correct term is "dual heritage"

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Pluriculturalism is a term that was devised by the Language Policy Division of the Council of of Europe and involves identifying with at least some of the values, beliefs and/or practices of two or more cultures, as well as acquiring the competences which are necessary for actively participating in those cultures. Pluricultural individuals are people with the competences of knowledge, disposition and linguistic and behavioural skills required to function as a social actor within two or more cultures.

As yet the term Pluriculturalism is used mainly in an educational and language setting and not in everyday life..

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There are only three races: Caucasoid, Mongoloid and Negroid. At least when I was in college...

I guess it's how you define the term "culture." Would you agree that Americans are of a different culture than English? I guess the prefix "multi" would mean MORE than two, so he'd be bi-cultural, if you concede that Turkish and American ARE two different cultures. My husband, as an imigrant, is very much NOT of the American culture.

Ethnicity, I thought, depended upon the country from where you hail. Pakistanis certainly don't seem "white" to me. I would have thought they were Asian, as are Indians. But I know they make the distinction in forms who's Asian or Pacific Islander... But maybe that's just in the US for political reasons. White or hispanic/non-white or Hispanic not of Mexican descent... Still making reparations, maybe???

I find the whole thing fascinating.

As for my little guy, dual heritage makes sense. And he'll probably have dual citizenship, so that works.

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i'm a half spanish and half euro-mutt american, but when it comes to filling out forms i usually leave that section blank if possible, simply because it really doesn't matter to me and it's nobody's business unless i choose to make it so (my family history is fairly interesting and i don't mind sharing that on occasion, but it has nothing to do with race/culture/heritage; but if some stranger or "official" asks me directly my standard response is "why, are you writing a book?").my progeny's mother is turkish and so she is dual citizen from birth and grew up bi-lingual and with first-hand exposure to both cultures thanks to summer trips to turkey.. but i'll leave it up to her to decide whether or which box to fill in if she ever cares about those things

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There are only three races: Caucasoid, Mongoloid and Negroid. At least when I was in college...

I guess it's how you define the term "culture." Would you agree that Americans are of a different culture than English? I guess the prefix "multi" would mean MORE than two, so he'd be bi-cultural, if you concede that Turkish and American ARE two different cultures. My husband, as an imigrant, is very much NOT of the American culture.

Ethnicity, I thought, depended upon the country from where you hail. Pakistanis certainly don't seem "white" to me. I would have thought they were Asian, as are Indians. But I know they make the distinction in forms who's Asian or Pacific Islander... But maybe that's just in the US for political reasons. White or hispanic/non-white or Hispanic not of Mexican descent... Still making reparations, maybe???

I find the whole thing fascinating.

As for my little guy, dual heritage makes sense. And he'll probably have dual citizenship, so that works.

There are only three races: Caucasoid, Mongoloid and Negroid this concept is archaic and the terms Negroid and Mongoloid are now considered derogatory by most anthropologists http://racerelations.../WhatIsRace.htm

Ethnicity has little or nothing to do with the country you hail from. ethnicity is defined as state of belonging to a social group that has a common national or cultural tradition and language.

Sioux,are Native American people and are considered an ethic minority as are all other Native Americans.

I do not find it at all fascinating. I find it sad to think of child seen by its parent as different or mixed race..

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if you only visit the eastern black sea region of turkey, then it is normal to think turks are caucasians. because the vast majority of people are fair haired and blue eyed and ethnic subculture just like the southerners in the usa kurds are also ethnic subculture but they are dark.and the rest of anatolia is heavily mixed.

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In my book it doesn't matter if someone is black, white, blue or green with orange spots, we are all human beings (with a few exceptions) and should be treated as such. It is behaviour that is important and the way we lead our lives.

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In my book it doesn't matter if someone is black, white, blue or green with orange spots, we are all human beings (with a few exceptions) and should be treated as such. It is behaviour that is important and the way we lead our lives.

I agree with you Sunny with regard to how we behave and interact with others, but in science, medicine, anthropology ,education, the law, social services for example when adopting or long term fostering children ethnicity is very important.
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IWB- I'm half Austrian and half Heinz 57.

Aston- Why would you find it sad that I am interested in how my child will identify himself and my sensitivity to the fact that he may have questions growing up and I am seeking out information in anticipation? Maybe because I live the the Sates, race/culture/ethnicity and identity are very much an ongoing issue since there really is no such thing anymore as being "American."Sunny- I agree with you, too. As a teacher of many different types of children, I could care less what they are or what they look like; I just want them to be eager to learn! : ) But you better believe our government cares! We track progress of different culture groups to make sure our educational system isn't biased against certain 'minorities' even though those groups are now in the majority in certain areas. If my child will be considered ESL when going to school (another possible topic of discussion), then HE will be in one of those monitored groups! http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/explainer/2012/05/white_american_babies_are_now_in_the_minority_why_does_the_census_divide_people_by_race_anyway_.html

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personally i think eventually (probably long after our grandchildren's grandchildren are worm food) race is going to be a moot point, as everyone by then will be pretty much beige, with only small pockets of "black/white/brown/yella" or whatever you want to call it. far's i'm concerned, it's already moot... but i don't make the rules, i just go out of my way to break them =]

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Many years ago I was invited to spend the weekend with some friends, on the Saturday we were supposed to have a barbecue but a monsoon hit so we stayed in doors in their large games room which had a snooker table , dart board and a bar, My friends had one child, a seven year old boy with straw coloured blonde hair that stuck out every which way, a face covered in freckles and no front teeth.

The boys father had made him a bivouac and he was playing happily. He was dressed as a super hero complete with mask, underpants and a cape

There were several adults around the bar chatting and drinking and just enjoying ourselves when suddenly my friends son jumped out from nowhere.and asked loudly " where did I come from mum?

Every one went quiet and my friend said not now darling mommy has guests. The child then asked his father where he came from and his father said that they would have a nice chat at bedtime.

The boy superhero said " your no fun I am superman and and I come from another planet, its only behind the sofa as I don;t have a rocket " Posted Image

The little boy later earned a first class honours degree from Oxford University

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If my child will be considered ESL when going to school (another possible topic of discussion), then HE will be in one of those monitored groups!

Why would this happen, do you speak Turkish at home? Unless you make a big thing of him being half Turkish I doubt it would cross anyone's mind.

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IWB- that's why they say in SciFi films, all aliens look the same- they have advanced beyond different, orginal, ethnic distinctions.

I think it's more intersted to have a variety of looks, but also to see interesting combinations.

Around where I live, it used to be all WASPy years ago, but yesterday, I was in the minority at the mall. You gotta go with the flow, I say, or risk becoming Archie Bunker.

My husband is the primary care giver right now, so my son hears more Turkish than English right now. I have no idea if and when that will change, so I am curious about his language acquisition. It IS a big deal in the States. Right now, the middle school at where I teach is "on warning" by the state of PA for not making AYP (adaquate yearly progress) in our special ed and ESL sub categories. Mind you, our scores were the highest overall in the state. But try to tell that to a government who wants to get rid of public schools and privatise education.

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Archie Bunker - I had to look him up on Google. He was based on UK's Alf Garnet in 'Until Death Do Us Part'.
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IWB- that's why they say in SciFi films, all aliens look the same- they have advanced beyond different, orginal, ethnic distinctions.

I think it's more intersted to have a variety of looks, but also to see interesting combinations.

Around where I live, it used to be all WASPy years ago, but yesterday, I was in the minority at the mall. You gotta go with the flow, I say, or risk becoming Archie Bunker.

My husband is the primary care giver right now, so my son hears more Turkish than English right now. I have no idea if and when that will change, so I am curious about his language acquisition. It IS a big deal in the States. Right now, the middle school at where I teach is "on warning" by the state of PA for not making AYP (adaquate yearly progress) in our special ed and ESL sub categories. Mind you, our scores were the highest overall in the state. But try to tell that to a government who wants to get rid of public schools and privatise education.

You would know thıs before marrying a foreigner. Mixed children always experience identity crisis
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My husband is the primary care giver right now, so my son hears more Turkish than English right now. I have no idea if and when that will change, so I am curious about his language acquisition.

But you'd speak English to him and read him bed-time stories if he's too young to read his own and his little friends speak English don't they?

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You would know thıs before marrying a foreigner. Mixed children always experience identity crisis

No they don't.Posted Image

Children born in the UK to families for whom English is not the first language , speak for example Urdu to the child at home and when it starts nursery /preschool the child begins to speak English with ease by interacting with the other children and staff who speak English.

The child thus becomes bi-lingual or even multi-lingual.

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Of course, I read, talk to my child. But my husband's with him much more during the weekdays.

As for knowing or not knowing certain things, yes, up to a point, intellectually you "know" to a certain degree. But it doesn't really hit home until the little critter starts to become a reality vs just a topic in theory...

I would tend to think that one gets his sense of identity from his parents. If the outside world doesn't accept him/her for whatever reason, I'd hope that the child learns that it's that other person's deficiency- not his/hers.

I'm not that concerned. But it will be interesting to see if there's much culture shock once we move to Turkey in 10 years. Hopefully, we'll visit Turkey as much as possible and will be connected to his family in Turkey so he won't feel like a foreigner in his own country.

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my spawn spent her first 8 years in cali and traveling to turkey every summer. at home my ex spoke turkish and i spoke english with her so (as i mentioned) she grew up fluent in both languages and had no problems with it in school until we came here (she could speak/understand turkish fluently but couldn't read/write in turkish), but even that wasn't a huge problem; she picked it up very quickly and is now an avid reader in both languages and gets along very well in school, has never had a problem making friends (actually has somewhat of a celebrity status coming from cali), she's been to 4 different schools in 4 years and adjusts very well each time, making friends very easily. she is very intelligent and is constantly getting commendations from all of her teachers; she loves school and is always very helpful in the classroom, and enjoys being made an example of in english classes. somehow she is both wise and mature beyond her years and takes everything in stride, no matter what happens. she hasn't even asked any questions about my pending divorce, just kinda accepts the way things are and has no apparent issues as a result (her teacher mentioned once that she got a little quiet when the class discussion was about family relationships and touched on the fact that some families live separately, but that has never come up again). she's also an only child and has had no apparent issues from that fact either, no jealousy problems, no sharing issues, no ethnic, racial, or socioeconomic prejudices, etc.

i don't know if it's just a matter of getting the best genes from both of her parents or if we somehow did everything right raising her or if we just got lucky, but whatever it is it has worked out just fine so far. as far as her upbringing i've always tried to feed her curiosity and encouraged her to figure things out on her own, helping without spoon-feeding her. we never used the word "no" when she was little, it was always "don't _______", and i think because of that she has never sassed/talked back to us or other adults, and is very respectful. if she was going to do something stupid, we always let her (short of causing herself serious injury) and let her learn from her own mistakes (the way i see it, metaphorically speaking of course, if a kid wants to touch a hot stove, let 'em... they'll do it once and never again!).

as far as religion goes, i'm a recovering catholic and my ex is an agnostic from a muslim world, and we chose not to subject her to any religious ideas, though we did allow my parents to take her to church on rare occasions just to give her a bit of exposure to the culture, instructing them that they were never to tell her that any of it was anything but their own personal beliefs, and they were thankfully cool with that. her questions on the topic were few and far between and ended at a very young age, and i've always taught her that it's up to her what to believe in. i think religion is an adult concept that should never be forced on children; if she chooses to believe in someone else's gods when she's old enough to "understand" (and nobody really does) then fine, but until then I've taught her that as long as we're not being forced to conform to your idea of morality, your religious beliefs are none of our business. ethics are not dependent on religion.

i don't know how to be a good parent, but i think i have some idea how not to be a bad one. there's no instruction manual (other than a thousand different views in psychological or religious bullsh!t books that i've never seen as being worth the paper they're printed on, written by so-called "experts", most of whom i can't imagine even have kids of their own who've survived unscathed); i just wing it and have always treated her as a human being instead of as an inferior, never putting into her head that she's anything "special" (because none of us are, really; we've all got our pros and cons and who's to say i'm any better than you and vice versa?), mainly just to think for herself and not take anything for granted, and generally to simply be a good human. so far so good!

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i don't know how to be a good parent

I sounds to me as if you've done a pretty good job, IWB. In my opinion a laid back approach is always better than the 'getting your knickers in a twist over everything' approach. You see on forums, and elsewhere, parents agonising over the most trivial little things (as well as big things) and you wonder how neurotic their child is going to end up.

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