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Virtue7

Please Help With My Turkish Wifes Behaviour's/moods

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Virtue7 I am not sure I can offer any more wisdom that the earlier posts except maybe seeing things from you wife's point of view, she is probably lonely and missing you and frustrated with herself because she has to be in Turkey to repeat her college work, I wouldn't dismiss the value of your 100000 facebook messages because in a long distance relationship they are your communication they can be as meaningful or as worthless as any means of communication and extending that thought her anger and jealousy over your addition of a new female friend is the equivalent of in a 'normal' relationship you arriving home from work late and saying I met up with X an old friend I am sure I told you about her etc etc and the ensuing argument, the jealousy may be petty and irrational but maybe it is grounded in her own insecurities and unhappiness and when is love ever rational? Sorry I don't have a fix it to offer but patience, empathy, stability and for sure keeping your lips sealed may be your best and only options right now and though it may be difficult view your facebook page as her window to your life and take care how you manage it, I don't mean be deceitful but be aware of her sensitivities during this time you are apart, I wish you both luck and happiness in the future whatever it holds for you both.

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Virtue, I don't have a facebook account as I really don't understand the need to have "friends" you don't really know and acting out life on line. Why do you need to be on FB ? I am not a jealous person but I would not like my partner spending time on line on FB. Why do you keep your account open when you know it upsets your wife? Being married or in a long term relationship is about compromise.You seem to be expecting this young woman who appears to have emotional difficulties to go along with your life. I think you need to make some changes for one close face book What is more important you marriage or your mates? There are many ways to stay in touch with good friends acting out on FB is not one of them.You chose to marry a naive young woman from a very different background so you cannot expect her to behave like women of your own age or social circle.When people marry there is an awful lot of compromise and even more so if there are age or cultural differences; The sooner you and your wife live together the better, May be you should have married after her studies had finished so that you were not apart for so long. Long distance relationships are difficult and worrying ask any woman whose husband has gone through Turkish military service.I wish you both all the best and hope you can work your way through this.

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I had a similar experience with a Portuguese girl. I met her while stationed in Portugal, and when I had to return there on business I saw her again, and we decided to get married. We didn't know each other very well, but with the US military, when you meet someone in a foreign country and fall in love, you eventually have to leave. And the only way you'll ever see them again is to marry them and take them with you. So we got married, and I took her with me.

After about two weeks of moving to the US. She exhibited behavior just like your wife's. It got so bad I did the same thing, and said that if she wanted to get divorced and go back, I wouldn't stop her. It was hell for a while. Then when it came time for her to leave, I went to give her a hug just to say thanks for all she went through to marry me and come to the US, hoping to at least part on good terms. She pushed me away in anger. She was angry because of the very idea that I would let her divorce me and go back to Portugal, which is what she said she wanted in the first place! But I had had enough of her behavior, and would rather have been alone than with someone who was making my life hell. It made no sense to me. That is, until we talked about it years later.

What I learned from our later conversations was that our expectations were completely different. She expected me to control her, to put my foot down whenever she acted that way, and to keep her in her place. For her (strangely enough), this would have made her feel secure in our marriage and important to me. I am sure that this would have involved a lot of shouting and emotional outbursts on both our parts, but I'm not like that. To allow her to be free to do what she wanted, to trust her, to expect her to trust me, to not react to her games, to not dominate her, was a sign to her that I didn't love her and wouldn't fight to keep her. Expecting her to trust me, in her mind, might have been setting the stage for me to have affairs with other women, taking advantage of her trust. Where she lived in Portugal, adultery was very common, so that's what she expected of me. In fact the opposite was true, but this was not how husbands behaved in her world. In her world, jealousy, dominance, and controlling behavior equaled love. In my world, trust, equality, and acceptance equaled love.

As people grow up, they learn from models what a real man is and what a real woman is, and what a real relationship is. We had very different models for that. In your wife's case, her male model was probably her father and the female model was her mother (Don't let the way they act when you're around fool you). Anyway, when we got married, those models we had in our minds collided.

Anyway, we got divorced, and she got her wish to go back to Portugal. Later, she married another American man who put up with her behavior, and moved to the US. To a large extent, she hen-pecked and manipulated him because he put up with it. They were constantly fighting. She never developed much respect for him, and eventually they got divorced. After that, she wanted to come back to me, I suppose after a period of maturity, having come to realize that her histrionics were rooted in her insecurity about whether I really loved her or not. I didn't put up with them, and she respected me for that -- but my lack of dominance and controlling behavior caused her to doubt my love for her. She couldn't understand why I married her -- as beautiful a person as she was, she had a deep-seated insecurity about her worth as a person and as a woman. Because of that she was afraid I would reject her at some point, and so she rejected me, to test my love for her. In her mind, I was supposed to put my foot down and treat her like I owned her. Not backing down, not compromising, not putting up with her, but taking charge of her and putting her in her place and keeping her there. That would have made her feel secure.

None of this was apparent when I was going through it, since I took her behavior to be an accurate expression of what she was thinking. I couldn't have been more wrong.

Years later she explained all of this to me, and said it was because of her own immaturity and a lack of understanding of how relationships work outside of her own world. I have a feeling that you are going through at least some of the same thing I went through. It may be that when she rejects you and runs away, you're supposed to go get her and bring her back. Not with begging or supplication, but with alpha-male dominance that she will respect, like a child testing his or her boundaries with a parent figure.

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In her world, jealousy and controlling behavior equal love. Many Turks think in this way. Europeans and Americans typically are not this way (of course there are exceptions).

I agree with you Ken and there is the added southern hysterics, sorry but its true and in Germany we even have a "medical term" for it "morbus mediterraneum" meaning patients, mostly southern European (italien, spanish, turkish etc.) females (again, sorry girls) who get hysteric over the slightest thing, like taking blood pressure or taking a bit of blood. Behaving like its the end of the world, fainting etc. Posted Image

Saying that, I think that it is human nature to push the boundaries of a relationship to find out how far you can go, without necessary being aware that you are doing it, especially when you are young. I`m a believer in that your partner only does to you what you let him/her do. I certainly pushed when I was younger and when there was no boundaries indicated by my partner I thought either he does not care enough or he is to weak and I would end the relationship.

I think that in most long term, loving relationships there comes a time when one tries out how far he/she can go and the other one has to say "this far and no further" and mean it

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Thank you KenYou have raised some very valid and interesting thoughts/observations. I agree with many of your comments and think there is a lot of this.The problem is that my wife really doesn't have any past experience with real relationships. Sorry to keep bringing up our past arguments but each time someone says something it triggers my memory. There have been times when we have argued over petty things. I have got quite angry after a while as the insults and personal attacks increase. When i finally blow my top and say i've had enough and yelled at her and told her to stop this stupid behaviour, she sometimes and often does become controllable and settles down and after I apologise (i emphasize I) all is ok. It's not how i want our relationship to be as i'm not used to this and i have observed my parents in my lifetime have maybe less than 10 arguments. But my wives friends and family i am constantly hearing or seeing petty arguments and insults and what i would call "tall stories, made up"About 9 months ago when she was at uni and myself back here she said there was a TV and film premier on in town with many stars attending. She said she had met one of the stars and he had asked her if she would like to catch up with her friends at a bar. She asked if she could go. I was a little taken back but thought well she's asked me and not tried to hide anything and is going with her friends and i trust her. So i said yes. She got really angry at me and said i can't love her if i say this. How could i let her go if i really loved her. So in the space of 1 min i was taken back twice!! I said well i trust you but ok don't go then. She said no to late i said she could!!! So she went. It was a big test. But a sucked badly at that game because i'd never played it before.I am still left with questions like her sudden moods like getting so angry and not talking to me for hours because i took 5 secs to take a photo instead of 3 secs. Another time i got lost trying to find a hotel on our honeymoon and couldnt find it and no taxi driver would take us so we walked for ages. In the end i gave up and she started asking locals who sent us in the wrong direction and we got even more lost. It was our last day together and once again she didn't talk to me as it was my mistake. (I DON'T SPEAK TURKISH!!!!!)She does get incredibly jealous i know that. I should've be more careful adding a female friend. She has been through my whole computer and even stole my phone off me to check all my Facebook messages. But it is her that wants Facebook. I hate it. Also our friends don't have anything else that is so universal so they all want to see our photos together and we both show them. if i went off facebook i'm sure she would be even more suspicious. I just checked her Facebook and funny thing is she has added 3 male friends recently. But i'm not allowed to add 1 female friend. I'm sorry but that is double standards no matter which way you look at it. Oh and by the way she still isn't talking to me after 3 days now.So what do you recommend i do. Stick with this? And alter my behaviour to one of obedience, forcefulness and not backing down? Or be myself, the guy she fell in love with?So confused :(

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While there has to be give and take in all relationships you shouldn't have to change who you are to suit the other person. If you do you are with the wrong person.Only my opinion but I think you are flogging a dead horse and would move on.

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Hello Virtue!I am really sorry for you. I do not think it is culturel. Any women on earth can be like your wife. Did you try to talk with her about it? I think you should talk with her. Ask her why she behaves like this. Maybe she can have some problems with her family or with her school etc. But I think she needs some professional help... From what I understand her aggressiveness is too much. Initially I think best way is to talk with her and learn what the problem is and solve the problem but if she still remains the same, then I think she should see a doctor or maybe you can both go to marriage theraphy or something like that. You shouldn't just let it go coz she is your wife and you guys promised to be together in both sad and happy days forever. Hopefully you guys solve the problem soon.Best of the luck

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It sounds like some of my experience is resonating with yours.

I'm definitely not saying to become a controlling husband... when I said that before I was more referring to what my ex-wife expected me to be. I couldn't be that way either, it's just not me. Be firm, patient, and strong, not controlling. A lion doesn't have to roar.

What I was trying to do was relate, from my experience, the kind of husband my ex-wife expected me to be, and why she acted the way she did to manipulate me into being that kind of husband. She also did the same thing, that is, tried to provoke me into jealousy. In the end, it all stemmed from her insecurity over whether or not I really loved her, because I wasn't reacting the way a Portuguese man from her village would have reacted. Maybe I should have taken her to a pub somewhere, went out to the car or to the bathroom and had a friend she didn't know walk up and start talking to her. Then when I came back, grab him by the collar and rough him up and threaten him. She probably would have loved that (I am NOT suggesting this)! Posted Image

I'm not discounting that she might have some emotional problems beyond this, there's no way for me to know -- but it sounds awfully familiar. If it was me? I'd ask her to go with you to some kind of relationship counseling if she wants to stay together. Don't imply that she is the source of the problem or that the counseling is for her, but say that it is for both of you to have a happy and lasting relationship. Relationships are not easy to begin with, and sometimes people need to learn how to have a discussion without resorting to personal attacks, bringing up past arguments or issues, etc... those two things are practically item one and item two in relationship counseling. And these things do have to be learned, they don't come naturally. Even a book on relationships which you both read, then sit and discuss, could help. Besides, it would be fun and create more intimacy between you as a couple -- focus on that aspect rather than on her being the source of the problem and you trying to "fix" her. Additionally, the counseling or advice would be coming from another source, so it won't be you telling her how to behave, it's both of you learning from a third party. That way she won't take it so personally and get defensive. Lead the way on this one, when she sees your enthusiasm in learning how to make the relationship work, she will be more likely to follow and join in.

If she chooses not to do this, or not do what's necessary to have a fulfilling relationship and nurture it, then I think she's already abandoned the relationship -- but be patient and give her time. At least you'll know you gave it your all.

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I Maybe I should have taken her to a pub somewhere, went out to the car or to the bathroom and had a friend she didn't know walk up and start talking to her. Then when I came back, grab him by the collar and rough him up and threaten him. She probably would have loved that (I am NOT suggesting this)! Posted Image

Great plan Ken, us girls love a cave man drumming his chest Posted Image

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I'm not sure whether to take your comment as an expression of sarcasm or not. My comment was in no way a reflection of how I perceive women. It was intended as humor, making fun of the situation I was in at the time. Hence the Posted Image emoticon at the end.

Personally, I prefer a woman who is strong, and who has lots of personal character and power. But in some societies, be they nations or neighborhoods, some women interpret the kind of behavior I described as an expression of love (when actually it's an expression of insecurity). I think that might be what we're dealing with in this specific situation, and I am just trying to help.

Let's get back on topic, shall we?

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I'm not sure whether to take your comment as an expression of sarcasm or not. My comment was in no way a reflection of how I perceive women. It was intended as humor, making fun of the situation I was in at the time. Hence the Posted Image emoticon at the end.

Personally, I prefer a woman who is strong, and who has lots of personal character and power. But in some societies, be they nations or neighborhoods, some women interpret the kind of behavior I described as an expression of love (when actually it's an expression of insecurity). I think that might be what we're dealing with in this specific situation, and I am just trying to help.

Let's get back on topic, shall we?

I do apologize, my comment was only meant humorous and I was complimenting your comments, sorry if that did not come over correctly

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Well after 3 days of not talking i manned up and rung her. I was determined not to give in but i missed my wife so much.I said why didn't you call me and she said because she was angry about the FB message. She even turned it around and said i had been a bad husband for not talking to her for three days even though it was her that stopped talking to me.I took some of Ken's advice and decided to be dominant and see what happened but in a low, caring and polite way. I said honey you have added 3 males to your FB recently but you're angry at me for adding 1? She said but yes i added my female friend but she only accepted the three male friends??? I didn't know there was a big difference. Anyway i didn't let her stop and think to much i said Ok tell me who each of these three men are and how do you know them? She told me about all three and i quizzed her on some details and then thought i would notch it up a step as she didn't seem offended with the quizzing. I said is there anything going on with any of these guys? Are you being faithful to me? She said yes of course. She would never cheat on me. I said ok you have these guys in your lectures but do you ever catch up with them outside of university. She said no never. She asked why i ask these things. I thought right i'm really going to step it up another level now. I said well when someone doesn't trust their partner it can often be because they don't trust themselves. I said have you been 100% honest with me and been faithful? She said yes yes yes. I love you so much i would never even look at another man. I said that's good because you are my wife and i love you and you are all mine.She loved this. Straight away she said she had missed me not talking to her. She said she was thinking of me every minute of the day and was really sad not hearing from me.We have had three great days now and even when we are talking i say to her what i expect from her when she comes to NZ to show some dominance. I say things like when i come home from work can you have dinner ready for me please and then after dinner we will have time to go for a walk. She loves this. She says of course i will do that. I will do your washing and ironing to. I am your wife this is my job. But she loves that i say i will reward her with a walk around the park or tell her i'll take her to the movies. In NZ if you said that to your NZ wife she would call you a chauvinistic pig and you would be off to the fish and chip shop for your own dinner!!! Not to mention no cuddles that night or probably for a week!!I really think you are right Ken with Southern European and that includes Turkish woman and i don't like to generalize but i would say many like to have a man that is dominant. When a woman is insecure this is what they want. They want the man to make the decisions and to take control. it's not my nature to be like this but i will try for the sake of our marriage until things improve. When i remember seeing my wifes parents this is what happens. Her mother comes home from a long day at work and then starts cooking and cleaning. She never rests. But the father does work long hours all night and if the mother needs to go anywhere he will gladly take her in the car and drive her and wait for her while she does the shopping. We have never got her out of the house on her own. So hopefully long may this last. I know there will be many more stumbling blocks but when she is here things i hope will be easier and she can learn slowly that in NZ culture woman (and men) in a relationship have a free will to do as they please and be free and independent but this doesn't mean unfaithful. But we share duties/housework and cooking, woman drive, and we go out with groups of friends and have some drinks and enjoy each others company.(even woman separately with their friends at night!!) But we still always come home to our loved ones and tell them our love for them and give them a cuddle. Men will go fishing with their mates and hunting for 3 days in the mountains but it doesn't mean we love our wives any less.My wive is young and this is her first real relationship and i really feel she is just behaving the only way she knows how. Arguments seem to not be so bad. They are for venting and getting off your chest what has been building. Some strong words are said but really they aren't meant. Otherwise i would be divorced 3 times by now!!!But for me I will have to be very careful for a while and gain my wifes trust and slowly let her evolve within herself and within our relationship.I never thought it would be easy marrying a girl from a very different culture to mine but i also didn't think it would be this hard either. But i love my wife very much and always will. I will continue to analyse myself and see from her perspective if what i'm doing could be taken the wrong way. I will stumble i'm sure but in time i will unxderstand just like she will understand my culture. Fingers crossed eh!!!Many thanks to all contributors

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Wow Virtue! It's great that you appear to have hit on the magic solution, thanks to Ken's advice form his personal experience!I hope you continue in this vein (keeping her on side), but that gradually she will come to realize that you love her without the need to control or keep checking on her. It will be a challenge to find just the right level of control (for want of a better word) to suit both your needs. Good luck to you for a long & happy life together. :)

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You will ask why we married. Well i put most of this down to misunderstandings

This is not a good reason to get married..You've made a huge mistake, you've married a person you barely know for a terrible reason and she is suffering from borderline personality disorder.She will make the rest of your life hell. Luckily for you she's in a different country. Divorce her, and never ever speak to or see her again. Under no circumstances should you bring her to live with you in NZ, because if you do she will have the power of N.Z courts behind her, she will call the police accuse you of beating her, she will divorce you take your house and you will have to pay her alimony.You should not go to see her in Turkey either, unless you want to end up in a Turkish prison or worse based on her false allegations.I know what I'm saying isn't going to be popular here but it's the truth, just divorce her, divorce her or she will make your life a living hell.

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I agree JP. "Quitters never win, winners never quit."

While there's still a good chance things can turn out for the best, Virtue (and because you love her), please proceed with your plan to bring her to NZ (away from her family) to start your real life together. It's not finished until it's finished! Posted Image

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I agree JP. "Quitters never win, winners never quit."

While there's still a good chance things can turn out for the best, Virtue (and because you love her), please proceed with your plan to bring her to NZ (away from her family) to start your real life together. It's not finished until it's finished! Posted Image

How can you give such terrible advice? Do you want this guy to ruin his life and be miserable? Because that's what's going to happen if he brings this crazy woman to NZ.

Original poster, take off your rose colored glasses and don't take advice from anyone that says "things will get better", "stick with her hope for the best", or any other nonsense along those lines.

Unless you want to destroy your life completely, you have only one choice, divorce her, cut all contact with her, and next time don't get involved with crazy people.

Marriage is no joke, ESPECIALLY for a man to marry a mentally unstable woman, she will destroy you, that's all I got to say.

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Marriage is not always easy, and frankly it can be hard work at times.But until you've lived together as a married couple for a while, without the influence of close family, you won't really get to know each other.The important thing is to give it a go. If you love each other, and are willing to learn from each other, it is possible to find the common ground where you complement each other. This can take years.Sometimes people have a romantic view of marriage and think it will be all hearts and flowers, getting married is just the beginning - being married is different.You need to spend time together, it will be hard because of the cultural differences - my husband was once amazed that my female friend wanted to stay at our wedding party, so her husband went home to relieve the babysitter - he COULD NOT believe that this was a possibility, as the gender roles are so set in stone in Turkish culture. He didn't freak out, he'd just never seen it happen! So bear in mind that some things in NZ will rock her understanding to the core - married females going for a drink with single male friends, for example. She won't know what is acceptable and what isn't! It will be difficult for her, so it will take a long time for you guys to find a balance.But I wish you the best of luck, it may be a hard road to travel - if you don't try, you'll never know.

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