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Catholicism In Turkey

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Regarding AKP I think the media ruin his reputation in the UK. He maybe expressing his religion but if this was Christianity or another religion (over here in the uk) would people be bothered? Do people forget that Turkey was a Muslim country and the first thing Atturturk (sorry if wrong spelling) did was open a brewery! Religion aside he is doing good work. Building relationships with Kurdish communities, improving transport and education. Even introducing W to the alphabet for people who want to name their kids something less Turkish. He'd get my vote!

I get what you are saying about western media being against islam and islamic politicians, that is totally true at times. But the fact is Erdogan is a hypocrite who uses religion for his own gain. If he was really religious he wouldn't be doing a lot of things he is doing like allowing the police to beat up people in the street, introducing economic policies that make the gap wider between rich and poor. Just because he introduces a few policies such as allowing women to wear headscarf doesn't mean he is a good islamic politician. You have to see pass the exterior. And actually before the gezi protests Erdogan was pretty much well respected in the western media and a lot of academics saw him as a role model to guide a democratic muslim country, thankfully they finally saw the real him.

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What do you call a sleep walking nun?

 

A roamin' Catholic.

good one hahahah.

1. there are a few catholics in turkey, though i'm pretty sure, with few exceptions, they're probably mostly expats. there's a catholic cathedral right in the middle of istiklal in beyoglu, istanbul, and they're open for business

 

2. the us needs a NO party system. eliminate the parties and the electoral college and you will eliminate half the corruption in government overnight. one man, one vote, that's the only way to do it right. until then, they really should stop claiming to be a democracy when they're anything but.

 

3. turkey has a multi-party system, but of the three strongest parties (AKP, CHP, and MHP), only one holds enough votes (buys enough votes?) to hang on to power on a national level right now. hopefully that will change sooner than later. there have been rumors that CHP and MHP may merge, if only to oust the current AKP regime, but unfortunately i don't think that's going to happen

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_political_parties_in_Turkey

Seems interesting and not surprising though that not many Catholics live there. Turkey is the bridge between Europe and the Middle East. So its culture has always interested me. More so than Egypt or Saudi Arabia [which is the most backward nation with their conservatism]. I had a big laugh when watching the news and a cleric came on tv and said women who drive cars will damage their ovaries [as in the act of driving]. That gave me a good laugh. 

 

Yes the American system is flawed and public opinion has dropped to 12% for the government. Both parties cannot do anything yet our nation was founded on compromise not political fighting and bickering. I do think Romney would have been a better choice because what most American did not realize is that his implementation of healthcare in my state worked unlike the rest of the country. Obamacare will sink our nation in further debt. Most of this has to do with 75% American adults being on prescription medication for not living healthy lives. I think that Obamacare plus that pull plunge us into further debt but hey why should Obama care he will be out of office when most of us will be living our lives to pay off the debt.

 

Its strange in terms of the political parties of Europe and Turkey but they have their short comings as well. I would say Europe is more secular along with Turkey however America has radicals [align themselves with democrats] and conservatives which align themselves with republicans. Then you have independents who do not have a political party but generally are people who believe the federal gov should be going by the constitution not around it. Many people here though especially rural people do not trust the government at all. My uncle thinks the FEMA camps are being built to round us up and systematically eliminate gun owners and people who reject the American government. Its kinda funny to think but people are becoming more distrustful with our government here. I think we will see a real change here and maybe a party that believes in isolationism. That too is another debate here.

I get what you are saying about western media being against islam and islamic politicians, that is totally true at times. But the fact is Erdogan is a hypocrite who uses religion for his own gain. If he was really religious he wouldn't be doing a lot of things he is doing like allowing the police to beat up people in the street, introducing economic policies that make the gap wider between rich and poor. Just because he introduces a few policies such as allowing women to wear headscarf doesn't mean he is a good islamic politician. You have to see pass the exterior. And actually before the gezi protests Erdogan was pretty much well respected in the western media and a lot of academics saw him as a role model to guide a democratic muslim country, thankfully they finally saw the real him.

I generally do not think most politicians are religious people. Especially the typical republican who is a good Methodist or Mormon but uses tax payer money to hold events in Florida and attend the strip joints down there. The media here equipped strippers with cameras and they took pictures of the politicians there which was ironic. But that is democracy just be glad your not the guy in front of the camera. I view politicians as comedians. You get good politicians and bad ones.

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LAS, I live in Cesme Turkey and have been here for over 20 years.

 

 

 

Think about the bigger picture. It's not just about one persons religion but actually thousands of people and the majority speaks for itself which is why he is in power. 

Do you know anything about the voting system in T? 

Do you know that before the last elections voters in some areas received 'presents' of washing machines, fridges and other white goods (even if they didn't have electricity or piped water in their village), others received bags of coal?

Do you know that poor people, supporters of the government, have been moved to different parts of the country to boost their vote?

 

 

 

Do you think the UK government or the US would back down to protesters?

It would depend on the situation, but they would certainly be prepared to talk to them and would not attack peaceful protesters with tear-gas and water cannon. This is not propaganda, I watched it as it was happening on the only channel  that was courageous enough to broadcast it, instead of broadcasting the life of penguins, as other channels did.

The whole situation escalated because the PM refused to talk to people and sent in the police, just as it was reported in the UK press. Don't you remember the 'lady in red'?

Anyway I don't want to get into another discussion on Gezi Park. I live here and know what is happening. Just read the newspapers - there are English versions of various newspapers including Hurriyet and Today's Zaman which will give you some idea, the latest being that students, who are over 18, are being raided if they are suspected of living together. Would that happen in the UK or US?

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Well that's why they call it democracy and each to their own. Actually I'll think you find that the UK media is responsible for a LOT of bad press. Including what happens on their own land. Just recently they released news about an escaped terrorist from surveillance type arrest who changed into a Burka - I'm not condoning what he did - but they failed to mention he wasn't a treat to the UK and he was on a tag not to leave the country. Causing fear in and amongst people without all the facts. Typical of UK media.They are responsible for his reputation in this country. Unless you speak fluent Turkish and have access to Turkish / European media then how else are you to make opinions.Think about the bigger picture. It's not just about one persons religion but actually thousands of people and the majority speaks for itself which is why he is in power.Do you think the UK government or the US would back down to protesters? Umm I don't well I can only speak for the UK but it certainly hasn't worked in the past. The only way to change it is vote. Here in the UK many people don't vote so actually I think they can't really moan about the government coz they didn't exercise their right to.Sunny can I ask you where you live?

 

first of all, we have opinions on this because we LIVE here and we know first-hand that the turkish media has been muzzled by the government because many of us, myself included, have choked on the teargas and pepper spray. yeah, your first reaction is probably "well if you participate in anti government protests you should be willing to accept the consequences". gee, i didn't realize sitting at a sidewalk cafe minding my own business was considered "participating in government protests". wake up. this is not a democracy. there are few if any working democracies on the planet (the US and UK love to hide behind the term "democracy", yet they are not democracies either. in a true democracy the people make the rules and the politicians answer to the people. in the modern US/UK the politicians make the rules and the people answer to them). casting a ballot is the least important part of democracy; it's things like freedom of expression, freedom of the press, freedom of and FROM religion that make a true democracy.

 

and speaking of freedom of the press, the last place you want to look for news on turkey is in the turkish media. obviously you were not here during the protests or you would know that instead of publishing news on the protests they were so afraid of the government that they showed a documentary on penguins instead. when the people live in fear of the government, it is NOT a democracy.

RTE is not in power because of the will of the people, he is in power because, as a totalitarian theocrat, he has suppressed the voice of the people, fixed the "vote", and actually paid people to show up at his rallies to put on a show of how much "the people" love him. wake up! it's all a put-on. the only way to change things is by the vote? well, that would be true if the elections were legitimate, but this country (like the US and UK) does not have a "one man one vote" democracy, which is the ONLY form of true democracy.

 

no, the us probably wouldn't back down from protests, but they also haven't murdered protesters in cold blood since kent state in 1970.finally, the PM has become an expert at breaking the law, then changing it to fit his illegal practices. it has happened over and over again. this summer was no exception. the judges are paid off, which is why not one cop was convicted of any wrongdoing, and why thousands of people have been arrested (and many of them brutally beaten and even raped by police) for the crime of being in the wrong place at the wrong time. furthermore, he is still in the process (if he hasn't done it already) of changing the law to give the president executive power instead of the prime minister, because he is no longer eligible to run for PM, but he has his sights set on the presidency, and does NOT want to give up his power, and if he is successful in changing the law, he will both hold the office and maintain his ever tightening grip on the country.

 

so don't go saying that the media is responsible for his reputation anywhere, that "that's why they call it democracy", or that we don't have a right to an opinion until you yourself have choked on teargas because you wanted a cup of coffee, until you've had to squeeze lemon directly into your eyes to relieve the pain of pepper spray because you decided to cross the street at the wrong time, until you've been beaten bloody by the police simply because you were conveniently nearby, or until you actually know what the hell you're talking about. there is no democracy in turkey. 

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This latest turn in the topic would make an excellent topic under its own title if anyone would like to open one... :) If you want to continue it here that's okay too, it will just be harder to find for other people who might want to join it.

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I agree it would make and excellent topic but it would take a braver person than me to get my teeth into it! As you said in the forum rules, if ordered by a court you'd have to reveal who the posters were.

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I agree it would make and excellent topic but it would take a braver person than me to get my teeth into it! As you said in the forum rules, if ordered by a court you'd have to reveal who the posters were.

 

Yeah...I have far too many controversial things to say about the current set-up. I don't want to be disappeared in the middle of the night.

 

 

 

 

this is exactly the point i was trying to make, thanks guys!  =]

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Just back to one point that came up about proselytism. While the Turkish constitution acknowledges the individual's right to practice their religion, it does not allow proselytising, converting people to a religion. As far as I know the ban on proselytising is extant which might be why non-Muslim religious communities do not increase in number beyond births amongst members.

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Just back to one point that came up about proselytism. While the Turkish constitution acknowledges the individual's right to practice their religion, it does not allow proselytising, converting people to a religion. As far as I know the ban on proselytising is extant which might be why non-Muslim religious communities do not increase in number beyond births amongst members.

 

 

that's one law here that i wish other "western" countries would adopt!

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