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pureawsome3

Catholicism In Turkey

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I agree with the above posts but with the reservation of it very much depends on where in Turkey you plan to go as some areas are much more conservative than others and possibly/probably less tolerant. Also I would emphasise what Abi said about trying to convert people and preach about Christianity. Maybe it wouldn't bother a lot of people but it would certainly offend others and put you at risk.

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Yes, Abi, "90 odd % of the Turkish population is classed as Muslim" but only because it is bureaucratic box-ticking. I found it hilarious when Mr P went to change the number plates on the car and he was told to fill in the form with a drop-down box for his religion. I was intrigued to know what on earth he could have chosen. Catholic, he said. I fell about laghing - You, Catholic???!! Well, I did do my First Communion. Yes, but that was more than 40 years ago and you haven't put a foot in a church since.Just out of interest, I can't remember whether it was on my last UK passport renewal, but I do remember that it was an obligatory question on my original passport application, to state your religion. Is it still an obligatory question?

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I agree with you abi, Im sure that you will be able to practice easily and comfortably when moving to turkey but i wouldnt wave it in peoples faces.From what i see and have found Turkish people and Turkey its self is/are a proud nation!! I do know that in many places they have christian churches, i have heard there are some in istanbul and many over places.Where i live in Side, I have never seen one,i find many of the people living here that are turkish are muslim, some of the people coming over for seasons from the east i have found are a mix of christian and turkish, its strainge as kurdish people have different catagories of the religion that im still understanding. xx

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But...whilst Turkey is secular it wouldn't be a good if a Christian thought it would be a good idea to spread the word to try and convert people to their faith.

I think that the Turkish constitution prohibits proselytism, I'm not sure on that - anybody can confirm? I know it is illegal in Greece.

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I think that people should believe in what they want to believe in and follow what they want, if people decide the want to convert or change then they will do so on there own xx

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I tried to convert my previous flat mate to Marmite. It didn't work.Currently working on the wife....twice i've added it to the breakfast table...twice it's been shunned.

Haha, same here. Peanut butter is another one, and beans on toast prompts a response of shock.

I think that the Turkish constitution prohibits proselytism, I'm not sure on that - anybody can confirm? I know it is illegal in Greece.

I don't know, would be interesting to find out, I shall see if I can. Damn well should be!

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Religious proselytism is legal except when it is with a proven political motive.

Religious Freedom

The constitution guarantees religious freedom and forbids discrimination and persecution. Government usually respects religious freedom but places restrictions in religious minorities, especially radical Islamists. Registration of religious groups usually occurs under the category of an association to gain certain rights to limit potential harassment. Proselytism is not illegal but socially unacceptable and sometimes dangerous. Christians and other religious groups are allowed to teach and talk to others about their faith. Non-Muslims faced pressure and threats from the Muslim majority resulting in diminished religious freedom for these groups. Religious education in public schools is required.

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I was very surprised reading this thread. I have found this community--and in fact many of the respondents here--to be consistently wonderful: warm, helpful, and wise. But IMHO, I do think the community jumped on pureawesome a bit here, and I don't understand why. Perhaps the original post was a little casual and vague, but s/he tried to offer clarity when called to. I don't see any intention of pureawesome to proselytize, or any evidence that s/he is intolerant, just concerned about whether or not s/he would be able to celebrate his/her faith (a Catholic term for going to mass and observing the sacraments). I also found some of the language pertaining to Catholic rites to be mocking. Indeed, it seemed intolerant to me, and it saddened and disappointed me.As a person who comes from a very devout Catholic family, I think I understand pureawesome's concerns. I have a cousin who enjoys going to mass every day. Another cousin is very active in her church, enjoys baking the host (the wafer one eats in communion) and is just very involved. Most Catholics I know do not go to confession before taking communion, but there is that, too, as I think Vic mentioned. I think that this is another case where it comes down to if there is something in your life that is extremely important to you and it is not relatively available in Turkey, you are likely to be unhappy there. There are enough differences in services that most Catholics, I think, would not be comfortable going to another denomination's services. The only Catholic service I have come across was at the house of Mother Mary in Efes, but then, as I am no longer Catholic this is not something I have actively sought out. If going to mass and taking the host on a weekly basis is important to you, or if you are looking to join and involve yourself with a Catholic church, then you would really need to research that before you go and ensure there is a church in that area. Otherwise, if you are asking if you will be interfered with for your religion, the answer is no. Turks are very tolerant of other religions and you needn't worry about them proselytizing you, either. In my experience, it is a strange fact is that covered Muslim women are the shown the most intolerance (by secular Turks). But when I lived in Turkey years ago as a non-practicing Catholic, I was treated with benign curiosity and interest in terms of religion, nothing more.Hope this helps--

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I had to state a religion on my mavi kart (residency permit) here; i considered putting DTS, which is what I used to put on forms in the US, but opted to put Taoist instead, which is more accurate and so far has not been an issue.

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Religious freedom may exist officially (as per Constitution), but discrimination and persecution is still around. Alevis for example, cannot get their cemevi recognized as places of worship, and their children are forced to take Islamic religious lessons in schools. These are just the legal impositions, but social ones are in force too, as evidenced by the recent killing of Christian missionaries & burning of their books.

Religion shouldn't have to be stated on ID cards, but I think it'll take a long time to turn the tide on that !Posted Image

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Religious freedom may exist officially (as per Constitution), but discrimination and persecution is still around. Alevis for example, cannot get their cemevi recognized as places of worship, and their children are forced to take Islamic religious lessons in schools. These are just the legal impositions, but social ones are in force too, as evidenced by the recent killing of Christian missionaries & burning of their books.

Wow, I hadn't heard of this; that is really upsetting.

I agree that religion doesn't belong on ID cards! It really is one's own business, isn't it?

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On 03.08.2012 at 9:16 PM, 'Meral said:

Religion shouldn't have to be stated on ID cards, but I think it'll take a long time to turn the tide on that !Posted Image

Meral, the law did change some time ago about having to state your religion on Turkish ID Cards, you can now leave that box blank.

However, after reading a few articles on the subject if you wish to indicate what precise religion you follow it's not always possible as there are few to choice from. Say you were a Jehovah's Witness you couldn't put that instead you would have to put that you were a Christian.

Listing religions on identity cards, whether obligatory or optional, is in violation of human rights, the top European human rights court ruled on Tuesday in case filed by a Turkish citizen who is a member of the Alevi community.

The landmark ruling by the European Court of Human Rights was prompted by a complaint filed with the court in June 2005 by Sinan Işık, who in 2004 applied to a Turkish court requesting that his identity card feature the word “Alevi” rather than the word “Islam.” Until 2006 it was obligatory in Turkey for the holder's religion to be indicated on an identity card, yet since 2006 he or she has been entitled to request that the entry be left blank.

DEAD LINK

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Thanks Abi, I didn't know that (about religion on ID cards).................. Mine was issued in 2004. Once religion is stated thereon, I wonder how difficult it would be to have it removed, and if it's even possible ?Posted Image

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I had to state a religion on my mavi kart (residency permit) here; i considered putting DTS, which is what I used to put on forms in the US, but opted to put Taoist instead, which is more accurate and so far has not been an issue.

Was just wondering what DTS meant, never heard it before,

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Hi Pureawsome, there are some churches in Turkey, though obviously nowhere near as many as there are mosques!Posted Image There are actually Christian Turks, too, so you can find yourself worshipping next to a local Turk. Even some Muslims will go to a church for quiet reflection, possibly in the same way a Christian could occasionally reflect and pray in a mosque.Posted Image

Of course, the majority of Turks are Muslim, and I haven't heard of Christianity increasing in Turkey, but depending on where you live - and with so many Christians living in Turkey - you should find a place to worship.

Regarding not being able to function with such little Christianity, only you can decide that - when or if you eventually live in Turkey. Personally, I think we can pray to God wherever we are. I'm a Christian but I've said a prayer in a mosque and Mr L - who is a Muslim - has said a prayer in a church and lit candles etc. Neither of us renounced our faiths when doing so - but we like to think that God (or Allah as Muslims call Him) wouldn't mind too much where we prayed - as long as we meant well!Posted Image

Of course, if you want to go to regular services and so on, then you will need to find a Catholic church - where in Turkey are you thinking of moving to?

L x

No to sound like a Troll but are there pagan turks? [serious question]. 

 

I didn't think Catholics lived in Turkey. I have heard Orthodox Christians do have churches there. Assyrians have the oldest Catholic churches in the world and its a shame the terror groups in Syria are destroying these old structures. This is similar to what happen in Norway when a group of pagan youth torched an old church [which was a museum and place of worship] and now that ancient art is gone forever. It is a shame and disgrace to a degree whether you believe in the religion or not.

In the US it works just as well when they ask for your political party affiliation (mine is either DTS or NOTA: None Of The Above)

I just tell them pro Libertarian to hell with organized parties! [We have a distrust for Republicans and Democrats-they refuse to allow other parties to have equal status in our system]. Our government is by far, far from perfect. Infact public opinion right now in America for both political parties is at like 12% [i think as of last stated by the news], that is pretty bad. Independents are gaining more power here and its starting to appear that people do not want a two party system here. Neither party have the interests of the people at heart, basically Republican= ultra rich and Democrat=welfare, more free bees , more spending of our money and also controlling everything. I notice our media is terrible here for the fact they never seem to catch our politicians in lies but they do lie a lot or make false promises and get away with it. I think its a joke but this is what happens when we live with too much media I think.

 

When I watch the news it has to be a foreign source and maybe local news because the major channels are too politically polarized. Does Turkey have this issue?

I get the feeling that Turkey is overwhelmingly Muslim like the UK is overwhelmingly C. of E.

UK ? Christian? I thought they were pagans [sorry Scotch Irish Yankee here]. 

 

When I went to the UK [twice] I found them to be very unreligious or not driven by religion. The same when I went to Ireland. I am sure very religious people live there but most certainly not in the cities [for Christians]. Now where I live is different they are very religious and conservative Christians [catholics and protestants]. In the cities though the majority of people are liberal or accepting. Most Muslims in America live in the big cities and believe it or not are generally liberal politically speaking, which I find strange. Back before Busch most of them voted for the Republicans along with conservative Jews. They voted for them maybe because they saw them as more religious and less radical than the Democrats. Does the UK have a two party system? Does Turkey have a two party system or multiparty? Excuse my ignorance please.  

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1. there are a few catholics in turkey, though i'm pretty sure, with few exceptions, they're probably mostly expats. there's a catholic cathedral right in the middle of istiklal in beyoglu, istanbul, and they're open for business

 

2. the us needs a NO party system. eliminate the parties and the electoral college and you will eliminate half the corruption in government overnight. one man, one vote, that's the only way to do it right. until then, they really should stop claiming to be a democracy when they're anything but.

 

3. turkey has a multi-party system, but of the three strongest parties (AKP, CHP, and MHP), only one holds enough votes (buys enough votes?) to hang on to power on a national level right now. hopefully that will change sooner than later. there have been rumors that CHP and MHP may merge, if only to oust the current AKP regime, but unfortunately i don't think that's going to happen

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_political_parties_in_Turkey

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Jim8919Here in the UK we have several parties but there are only 3 main contenders. In most of British history it's been conservatives vs labour but now we have a joint government conservatives and liberal democrats but that was because neither labour or conservatives could get a majority vote and the conversatives have joined up with the lib dems. It's not ideal as neither party like each other but it stops the rich white middle class men passing laws that harm the average working person.In response to religion. The UK is multi cultural especially London so I'm surprised you felt there was no religion presence. In north London there is a strong Jewish and Muslim communities and other places beautiful churches and cathedrals that are packed out on Sundays.Also Ireland has a very strong catholic / Protestants so much it's caused a lot of problems over the years.Regarding AKP I think the media ruin his reputation in the UK. He maybe expressing his religion but if this was Christianity or another religion (over here in the uk) would people be bothered? Do people forget that Turkey was a Muslim country and the first thing Atturturk (sorry if wrong spelling) did was open a brewery! Religion aside he is doing good work. Building relationships with Kurdish communities, improving transport and education. Even introducing W to the alphabet for people who want to name their kids something less Turkish. He'd get my vote!

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 He'd get my vote! 

I'm glad that you don't live in Turkey then!

The 'media' are NOT responsible for ruining his reputation, he has done it all by himself and what has been reported in the UK is justified.

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Well that's why they call it democracy and each to their own. Actually I'll think you find that the UK media is responsible for a LOT of bad press. Including what happens on their own land. Just recently they released news about an escaped terrorist from surveillance type arrest who changed into a Burka - I'm not condoning what he did - but they failed to mention he wasn't a treat to the UK and he was on a tag not to leave the country. Causing fear in and amongst people without all the facts. Typical of UK media.They are responsible for his reputation in this country. Unless you speak fluent Turkish and have access to Turkish / European media then how else are you to make opinions. Think about the bigger picture. It's not just about one persons religion but actually thousands of people and the majority speaks for itself which is why he is in power. Do you think the UK government or the US would back down to protesters? Umm I don't well I can only speak for the UK but it certainly hasn't worked in the past. The only way to change it is vote. Here in the UK many people don't vote so actually I think they can't really moan about the government coz they didn't exercise their right to.Sunny can I ask you where you live?

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