54 replies to this topic

[Jason]

http://www.hurriyet....192.asp?gid=244

Reproduced below:

New rules on road to Turkish citizenship

ANKARA - New conditions to obtain Turkish citizenship were passed in Parliament late Thursday. The condition requiring foreigners to reside in Turkey for five years has remained, while advantages have been given to those involved in science or investing.

Not doing military service and holding another country’s citizenship without permission are no longer among the reasons for being deprived of Turkish citizenship. According to the law, a child born to foreign parents in Turkey can receive Turkish citizenship if the child is not able to obtain the citizenship of his or her foreign-born parents’ country. A foreign child adopted by a Turk will now also be granted Turkish citizenship.

The law brings new conditions for foreigners to obtain Turkish citizenship. The consent of a competent authority is required for a foreigner to switch to Turkish citizenship. Foreigners can become Turkish citizens if they comply with the following conditions.

The conditions are:

- Foreigners must be of a mature age, have the ability to abide by their nation’s laws or Turkish laws if they are stateless.

- Foreigners must five years of uninterrupted residency in Turkey. The time limitation had earlier been raised to five years from three, and with the new law the five-year compulsory residence remains in place.

- Foreigners will have to confirm with their actions that they have made a decision to settle in Turkey.

- Foreigners must be free of dangerous diseases.

- Applicants must have good moral character, speak a reasonable level of Turkish, and earn enough to support themselves and their dependents, or have a good job.


Authority approval

Even if foreigners comply with all the conditions, they will not be able to earn citizenship if the Turkish authorities do not approve.

But, with the Interior Ministry’s proposal and the decision of the Cabinet, the law offers many new advantages to foreign investors and scientists.

[sunny]

Thanks for that information Jason


[[and earn enough to support themselves and their dependents, or have a good job.]]

Errrrr!?????????

[Abi]

So for us yabanci nothing has changed, unless the part about investing says more, sadly they didn't cover that in full, but thanks for posting, as its good to know the latest situation regardless,

[benhalterci]

I think this is just a summary of the law, Abi. The bit about investing sounds a bit dodgy to me...something like investing in someone's back pocket in Ankara -or am I being old and cynical here?
I did hear of someone in Istanbul, a very elderly woman, who was considered for all this AND she got the tapu in a tapu banned area. How? She is a multi millionairess with most of it laundered here.
On re-reading Dande's very good citizenship posting, it seems he probably WOULD have got it had he not been out of the country more than six months in a five year period. But that is a tough requirement and pre-supposes none of us have any relatives at home. I have a house in the UK and as long as my mother is alive I'll be visiting there certainly more than a few weeks every year. I also said to Dande that the Turkish citizenship requirement is much tougher than that required by Germany, who have 5 million Turks living there, and tougher than our one.

[Lucid]

as stated above - ''According to the law, a child born to foreign parents in Turkey can receive Turkish citizenship if the child is not able to obtain the citizenship of his or her foreign-born parents’ country''

ive never understood where a child of ours would stand if I his mother is English without turk citizenship - yet- and father is Turkish.
i dont have a son but if i do i wondered how do i save him from M service. of there is no way out of that? so i can still get my baby joint citizenship?
i asked consul but didnt understand the email response........
5 yrs interupted- meaning no holidays home then? and its still 3 yrs after marriage to a turk then. i once heard if ur married for 2 yrs with a child over 2 u can apply- is that tosh?
thanks

[dande]

On re-reading Dande's very good citizenship posting, it seems he probably WOULD have got it had he not been out of the country more than six months in a five year period. But that is a tough requirement and pre-supposes none of us have any relatives at home.

I'm sure you're right. Apparently Ankara had approved all other requirements. Pity we weren't told of this at the outset. I even wrote to them following rejection giving them reasons for our trips to the UK which were all family-orientated. Two sons' University Graduations and weddings, babies’ Christenings, Elaine’s Grandmother’s 95th Birthday celebration, etc.

I said in my letter "All our trips to England have been to visit and support our family and we do hope the Turkish Authorities will not penalise us for this by rejecting our applications. We do consider that would be unfair in a country such as Turkey which places so much value on close family life."

But, no go, apart from the suggestion we start the whole process over again. I don't think so!

[Debbie]

Chala

You can go home for holidays within the 5yrs but not for a total of 6m within any one yr........ well that's how I have always understood it to be............ it's the same here in UK for my Hubby..........

And as far as I'm aware it is 3yrs married to Turkish National before you can apply for your own, or 5yrs if not...

As for any son born to you while you live in Turkey not doing the Army....... that's a difficult one........... I have a friend who lives in Turkey and she had a little boy there, he has duel nationality, (her choices)....... so he would probably have to do his Army............

But could she have just applied for a British Passport for him from Istanbul without having to also apply for a Turkish one......would any authority have actually known he was born in Turkey if she hadn't bothered to get him a Kimlik....

Lets face it lots of Turkish Mothers do not register their sons as soon as they are born, to avoid them going into the Army for a couple of yrs......... they would actually be about 21 or 22 yrs old when they do finally get called up rather than 19.......... I know of some people who have left it for a least 2-3 yrs, so when they do finally register and acquire a Kimlik for their new born son, he's actually 2 or 3yrs old at the time............

[benhalterci]

Oh Dande, what you wrote to them was great:) Sadly, I feel that the 'family life' values are not meant to be extended to the foreign community here. I agree with you; I would be so sickened with them after that, that I would never go through it all again.

[Jason]

ive never understood where a child of ours would stand if I his mother is English without turk citizenship - yet- and father is Turkish.
i dont have a son but if i do i wondered how do i save him from M service. of there is no way out of that? so i can still get my baby joint citizenship?

As for any son born to you while you live in Turkey not doing the Army....... that's a difficult one........... I have a friend who lives in Turkey and she had a little boy there, he has duel nationality, (her choices)....... so he would probably have to do his Army............

But could she have just applied for a British Passport for him from Istanbul without having to also apply for a Turkish one......would any authority have actually known he was born in Turkey if she hadn't bothered to get him a Kimlik....

Lets face it lots of Turkish Mothers do not register their sons as soon as they are born, to avoid them going into the Army for a couple of yrs......... they would actually be about 21 or 22 yrs old when they do finally get called up rather than 19.......... I know of some people who have left it for a least 2-3 yrs, so when they do finally register and acquire a Kimlik for their new born son, he's actually 2 or 3yrs old at the time............

Everything you need to know about Turkish Military Service:

http://www.unhcr.org...67010bd2,0.html

(Probably should be stickied)

[Debbie]

Jason just had a quick look at your link.........

It clearly says "Military Service applies to any male of Turkish Nationality irrespective of his background or place of residence.................

So if Charla, or anyone else was to have a son and make him duel nationality then he would definitely have to do his service, even if they moved back to the UK perminantly.........

But do you, or anyone know.......... Just because your son is born in Turkey and has a Turkish Father do you have to register him Turkish national........ can he not just be British National.......... if so....... then this is the only way any male child would be able to ommit his Miletery Service.............

[Meral]

This is interesting ! An old school friend of my daughter's has an Austrian mother (without Turkish citizenship) and a Turkish father, and had dual citizenship. In his final year of secondary school, his parents decided the university entrance exam would be easier if he applied as a foreign student, so his father took him out of Turkish citizenship and he was issued with a 5-year residence permit. He was by then well over 18, and told us that while he stays a "non-citizen" he cannot be required to do Turkish military service, however he does intend to do community service in Austria after finishing university.

I am not sure if the authorities would be able to force him to do MS while he doesn't have citizenship, although he appears no different from any other young Turk. "Non-citizens" holding a Mavi Kart may be in the same position (?).

[Lucid]

[quote name='Debbie' date='May 30 2009, 11:07 AM' post='17551']
yes true my husband has a dodgy kimlik date too and he had to ask the villagers his real DOB as his mum forgot or didnt care to recal. but theu stated the reason for not registering thier son at birth was they thought he may die. infant mortality in the 80s in villages was high i guess as she alone lost 2 before him. best way to postpone military service seems to be uni or other training and then hope that u get 6 months max. not the full hog.
i just found this and it worries me regarding british citizenship - not quiet this thread but interesting for all.
not sure how to add but will do anyway-

http://www.telegraph...-treatment.html

i didnt realise u can loose british citizenship if u still retain you brit passport.
i wonder under what circumstances u lose turkish citizenship too then?!

back to registering your child in turkey who has brit parent and turk parent - i was under the presumption as im married to the turk i have to register my child and get a kimlik asap as opposed to a brit passport only.
if i can make sure he does not have anything but brit id that would be good but then he cant get citizneship or rights as a turk til after 40 - when it will be too late for him to do military. i guess he can decide himself by then!!
im a pacifist n just cant understand why i would want to send my son to military service......But telling my husband this just gets me a blank look of surprise!!

i have just considered another possibility - turkey in the EU
what would happen then who knows but my guess is our kids will have more choices......down the road.

[sunny]

[[You can go home for holidays within the 5yrs but not for a total of 6m within any one yr........ well that's how I have always understood it to be..........]]

No, I'm afraid that the 6 months allowed is the total over the 5 years.So you have to be in Turkey at least 41/2 years of the 5 years to qualify for Nationality.

I have always understood that no matter where a child was born, if they have a Turkish father they are classed as Turkish.

[Lucid]

i should say fortunately that seems the case yes but i feel thats not what id prefer.
i would like to hear of what other mums have done about this. my only experience of mums here of any nationality but with turk husbands is that the turk ID came automatiacally and the rest was a process applied for by the other half whos a non turk. eg. a brit passport - for id or if to travel. or dual citizneship purposes.
i think the issue therefore is does one have baby in uk or turkey. but then the health care nhs issue arrises again and eligability.not to mention the fact that the dad may not even be able to enter the uk to see his wife giving birth!!because of visa or practical limitaions.

[Abi]

i didnt realise u can loose british citizenship if u still retain you brit passport.

Neither did I, under what circumstances would that happen?

[sunny]

This is from an article in 2005

Under new legislation being considered in the UK, the home secretary would be able to strip dual nationals of their British citizenship as easily as he can remove or exclude foreign nationals from the UK. Even Britons born in the UK would be covered by the powers, included in the immigration, asylum and nationality bill as part of the government's anti-terrorism drive, but overshadowed by the furore over the terrorism bill.

The clauses are understood to be criticised in a report the parliamentary committee on human rights will publish on Dec. 5, the day before the bill receives its second reading in the Lords.

Until now the home secretary has only been able to act if the British citizenship of dual nationals is "seriously prejudicial to the vital interests of the UK": for instance, if they are spies. Under the proposed laws, he could deprive them of citizenship and the right of abode if it would be "conducive to the public good".

Nationality article

[Lucid]

really interesting - in that case the nhs trust fund in the article i put as worth a read above was not quoting the law as such and the newspaper article doesnt state much more about those persons citizenship. i find it strange that they can say as a nhs representative that the couple no longer had brit citizenship due to living abroad full time.... i have not ever read or heard of cases quoting the government- i would be interested to know how it panned out for the couple in the article in general. i dont seem to be the only one scared to 'go turk' too much - some locals near me say they have even heard of airport officials questioning people in and out of turkey who have residency in turkey and are brit citizens.
fact and fiction in this case can cause me great anxiety sometimes! one friend said dont take a turk surname it will be your downfall when dealing with uk officials when they see your passport.......since when was living in turkey and being married to a turk a crime...pls dont tell me ist a muslim thing....
scary..are countries changing laws for reasons - is country hopping out of europe going to be even harder ....
sorry i tried to stick to subject am wandering now....
point is i have family in uk and am british and not retired and not wanting to lose anything!
is it just me or is the world getting more organised with invisible walls. beurocracy sucks. makes moving away from home have a rather scary ring to it.... im a hippy at heart i dont see boarders but i guess i will be shown them if i dont comply with one rule or another!

[Abi]

Thanks for posting that Sunny as I didn't know about that at all.

I think the thing about the NHS is that in order to receive free medical treatment in the UK you have to be a classed as a resident and has nothing to do with being a British National.

You can however receive free treatment out patients treatment in an emergency.

[sunny]

Look Chala, I've been living here for 19 years and have been married to a Turk since 1994 and have his surname on my passport and up to now have never been quetioned about it. Also none of my friends with Turkish surnames have ever mentioned any problems. I think immigration have got enough to do without making problems for British born citizens.
After I reached retirement age I did get a form asking all sorts of questions about what happened to my house and furniture in the The UK, was it rented and where I lived in Turkey, was it mine or rented etc.also they wanted to know entry and departure dates to/from the UK.
To most of the questions I answered 'None of your business'. That was several years ago and I've heard nothing since.
I think the people down your way are just winding you up!

Abi, it looks as if you have to be a pretty nasty character before there's any chance of losing your citizenship and even then only if you have dual nationality.

[Lucid]

i agree. those people are retired older worriers who dont integrate so well with turks here anyway, only if they need them -so maybe as im pressed for real mates here i listen to anything. i should be more selective- its cos im nieave i guess ---i have had people say some horrid things to me about turks and you wonder is the only reason they come here for cheap booze and hols? i need more positive experiences and also ones for 30 somthings settling here....as u can imagine that would make me feel so much calmer....
sorry sunny do u mean u dont have turk citizenship. I dont want to pay residency fees so when my times ready i will apply for turk citizenship. i wish i could find free turkish lessons - there are in my education centre in the village but for women who cant write even ABC... not sure if thats suitable. seems poor turkish will hold me back - thats always somethng i wanted to hear about from young 'married to turk' couples - what have you done.....
sunny how did you learn when u first came? generally. in our house we tried TURK day and that ment no english but it just didnt work.plus my husbanh is at wk from 8 -8 or later
i have cds and books but i need more structure......will look at other section on site
thanks

sorry re. health again. Does giving birth class as emergency? just a thought.