15 replies to this topic

[benhalterci]

How exciting! Not from very close quarters of course but near enough to see he's a very pleasant looking man - nice expression etc - surrounded by a LOT of security!!

[sunny]

That was good Benh. Was that a royal 'we' you were talking about?

[Abi]

I did wonder with all the security how easy it would be a see him, so well done Ben

[benhalterci]

Sunny, no, it is a real 'we'..I do have some friends here y'know:))
Abi - yes, we didn't get that close to him obviously cos of security but close enough to see him quite well!
As you know, they closed Ataturk airport and the airspace for security reasons and there was yet another demonstration in Istiklal today - hundreds of police everywhere and helicopters above.
I don't know if you heard it on the news but apparently there was some kind of assassination plan but the guy was caught in its early stages thank goodness.
They didn't show much on the news about his Istanbul trip; just a few seconds pic of his going into the Blue Mosque surrounded as usual by his security team.

[Abi]

I heard about the assassination plot as it was mentioned briefly, not surprised though as there is alway some nutter trying to get famous, and of course Obama is a prime target, shame though because I think he is a good man.

I did wondered why he didn't bring his wife but as I was watching the news it said that he flew straight to Iraq so could then understand why.

[nergdesign]

Yeah he is going to iraq to tell them that he has got the permission for the troops to go through turkey instead of them having to go by their ships.

dont know why he is bothering to ask the Turkish government, he can do pretty much what he wants ; )

[Abi]

dont know why he is bothering to ask the Turkish government, he can do pretty much what he wants ; )

With respect I don't think so and wouldn't want to be in his shoes if he tried without Turkey's permission.

[sunny]

I agree with you Abi. Even a country as powerful as the US can't just ride roughshod over Turkey. Obama needs to keep on the right side of Turkey as it is in such a strategic position. The US would be at a disadvantage without the use of Incilik air base for example.

[nergdesign]

I agree with you Abi. Even a country as powerful as the US can't just ride roughshod over Turkey. Obama needs to keep on the right side of Turkey as it is in such a strategic position. The US would be at a disadvantage without the use of Incilik air base for example.

I dont want to get to involved in all this political stuff and DO NOT want to offend anyone at all, but why would the Turkish government give the US permission to build the US airbase in the first place. if somone asked you if they could build an airbase on your land so that they could go to war with iraq................would you say 'yes of course you can, no problem' wknowing that your country will be at risk if you didnt owe anything to that person?? Dont forget the amount of money Turkey still owes the World Bank???

It was a formality and a polite thing to ask for permission for the troops to go through Turkey.

Anyway I am not here to offend anyone, but sometimes people just need to be more open-minded. you know.

The UK for example would have not won the 2nd world war if it wasnt for the US help. Dont get me wrong you guys, I know Turkey is a strong country with a great army, and even the US has to justify actions to NATO, but I think sometimes we have to look at the bigger picture.

I woud love to know other peoples opinions on this ; )

Regards
Carly

[AliceWakefield]

Hi Carly and everyone, I think it's always interesting to speculate about what MIGHT have happened IF. . . For example, what if the Ottoman's had NOT taken the side of Germany in WWI? Would the Ottoman Empire have been divided into the present pieces of Iraq and Iran and Lebanon and Palestine and Jordan?

[Abi]

After reading Carly's 2nd post I realised that I didn't know why Incirlik base was built so I did a bit of research and was surprised at just how long the base had been there. I have copied a link about why it was built and its purpose. I also read somewhere else that the American gave a lot of aid to Turkey in 1945 and hence were able to gain a foothold to in Turkey.


http://www.globalsec...lik-history.htm


As far as being opened minded goes, well I like to think I am. I am not a political animal either.

Alice I agree it is always interesting to what would of happened if.........

[sunny]

[Anyway I am not here to offend anyone, but sometimes people just need to be more open-minded. you know.

The UK for example would have not won the 2nd world war if it wasnt for the US help. Dont get me wrong you guys, I know Turkey is a strong country with a great army, and even the US has to justify actions to NATO, but I think sometimes we have to look at the bigger picture.]

I'm not sure what we're supposed to being more open minded about and I'm also not sure what the UK has got to do with all this.

Thanks for the info about Incirlik Abi.

Alice I think the world politics would be very different if the Otoman Empire hadn't been disbanded especially with the worlds need for oil. Can you imagine if the Otoman Empire (Turkey) had control of oil fields and the wealth that goes with them?

[Ken]

dont know why he is bothering to ask the Turkish government, he can do pretty much what he wants ; )

It's not that way. A little history about the US/Turkey military relationship:

Just before the invasion of Iraq, the US Army's entire 4th Infantry Division (thousands of soldiers) was hoping to come through Iskenderun port, but Turkey said "no." The entire division had to be shipped back home and re-deployed another way. The US does respect Turkey's rights. Before the war, the US and the UK flew United Nations mandated "no fly zones" in Northern Iraq and Southern Iraq to protect the Kurds in the north, and the Shiites in the South, from attacks by Saddam Hussein, who had previously used nerve gas on the Kurds and brutally put down an insurrection in the south by the Shiites (Saddam Hussein regularly fired missiles at these planes, by the way). So up until the invasion, one of the main joint US/Turkish missions was in support of the United Nations in Iraq.

When Turkey said "NO" to the invasion, within a week, every aircraft and person supporting the previous mission was gone, since there was no longer any need for the "no fly" zones. No flights flew out of Incirlik into Iraq at that time, simply because Turkey said "no."

Incirlik was built in the 1950s after the Korean war. Turks fought with NATO troops in Korea and made up a large number of the ground forces there. Turkish soldiers were very well respected for their bravery in the Korean war. After Korea, Turkey became a member of NATO, and during the 1950s, during the cold war, Incirlik was built. There were several other bases here as well, to protect Turkey and other countries from Soviet aggression. During the "Cuban Missile Crisis," when the Soviet Union was deploying nuclear missiles in Cuba, one of the agreements President Kennedy made was to agree never to attack Cuba, and also to remove missiles from Turkey. In exchange, the Soviet Union did not deploy nuclear missiles to Cuba. Turkey had always played a large role in NATO, and has always had a friendly relationship with the US.

Incirlik is NOT, by any means, a US base. It is a Turkish air base, with Turkish flight operations, training, and logistics constantly going on there. The US 39th Air Base Wing is a guest, by mutual agreement with the Turkish government, and uses buildings on a part of that base. The Turks are in charge, not the US.

Mostly presidential visits like this are to promote goodwill, not to come to agreements on things, those kinds of things are done by the state department and the foreign ministry or the two country's militaries... So while they might have talked about Iraq, I seriously doubt any decisions were made. It was probably mostly making speeches and going to museums, strengthening relationships and getting to know each other. When they have to discuss important issues later, it will be a lot easier if they've already met and had a little fish and raki, as well as a few laughs, together!

[scobbiebhoy]

dont know why he is bothering to ask the Turkish government, he can do pretty much what he wants ; )

As Ken has pointed out, in the case of Turkey, the U.S does not do what it wants....however in the case of Pakistan it does. I think the U.S picks and chooses which sovereign nations to offend and defend. For instance as great defenders of democracy, they did not agree with the Palestinian people when they went to the poles, and as such they are living in squalor...... also if the likes of Darfur had natural recourses more would be done to help the oppressed.

[dande]

How exciting! Not from very close quarters of course but near enough to see he's a very pleasant looking man - nice expression etc - surrounded by a LOT of security!!

Last month we were in Washington DC staying with friends who are very much into politics, professionally and socially. They appear to have met, and been photographed with, most US Presidents in the past 20 years or more!

They mentioned that when you met Bill Clinton, you came away with the impression that he could speak knowledgably on any subject and you felt better about him when you left.

Although they haven’t met Barack Obama (yet!), their friends and colleagues who have say that after meeting him, you feel better about yourself. An interesting comment.

[mitchmoud]

I did not vote for Obama, and that has proven to be a mistake that I will correct come election time. Results are much better than rhoteric. Concerning US/Turkey relations, our aim was to support allies through the years, otherwise why do we have treaties? I guess allies are only allies when it is easy. I for one wish we would abandon all foreign basas and only support real allies. The only ones we have in my mind are the UK, Canada and Australia. These are the only nations that are friends of the US when things are down and dirty.