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Unethical Actions And Discriminations


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#1 Bengu

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Posted 26 January 2012 - 01:03 PM

Hello,After reading a few expats upsetting personal stories I thought we can talk and share about this issue here.I also wonder your point of views in some matters. You may have realised in Turkish job adds there usually an item which is "canditate should be under the age of 30 (or 35)". I could never understand that. Beyond being unethical I think its silly. At the ages of 40' s and 50's a person is the top of his/her experience and knowledge. So whats with under 35? Whats it like in your country?One other thing is for young people. They always say "experienced" in the adds. How come a person can get experienced if she/he cant work anywhere bc of unexperience?I even dont bother to mention gender and disabled discrimination.

#2 Reyhan

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Posted 26 January 2012 - 02:25 PM

Hmm I suppose thats a nice policy for graduating University students to ensure they will find work if they are otherwise qualified.And the issue of the work experience conundrum is also felt here in the U.S. except that companies are not allowed to discriminate based on age. Most of the job descriptions I've ever read list the qualifications which is usually just required number of years of experience in the field which you are applying, paired with an appropriate diploma of course. Because most companies can't or don't want to train a new employee. Mind you, Ive given a very broad generalization of job seeking here, when you get down to the nitty gritty, it all of course depends on many factors like industry, location and well, luck in many cases.

#3 swabs

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Posted 26 January 2012 - 03:29 PM

We also have in the UK Laws that stop age discriminationBut one situation i dealt with in the last few weeks at work, (wanting older not younger) was to say we would like 30 years of experience and to have done many other things, this would make the person around 50 to have that much experience! It was just because we cannot discriminate xx
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#4 Vic801

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Posted 26 January 2012 - 04:20 PM

Laws are supposed to be a deterrant but will never really change anything until you change people's mind-sets (when chicken have teeth!!)If you submit the same CV/resume with 2 different names, one "John Smith" or "Jacques Dupont" and the other "Walid Ben Said" you can be sure which one will be chosen.I once was sent by the Job Office for an interview. When I arrived the Director told me straightaway that he didn't want a woman in his department since, I quote, "women are not able to do overtime because of their domestic obligations" and "they are always having children". I asked why I had been called for interview and he replied that he was obliged to so as not to be accused of discrimination.So I was very surprised when they offered me the job. When I contacted the Director and asked him why they were offering me the job when he didn't want to hire a woman he replied "The only other candidates were Arabs and I'd rather have a woman in my department than an Arab".QCFD.
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#5 sunny

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Posted 26 January 2012 - 05:06 PM

You are so right Vic. All of us are prejudiced in one way or another, it's human nature which some of us try to overcome whilest with others it's a stone wall.
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#6 Reyhan

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Posted 26 January 2012 - 08:46 PM

Laws are supposed to be a deterrant but will never really change anything until you change people's mind-sets (when chicken have teeth!!)

If you submit the same CV/resume with 2 different names, one "John Smith" or "Jacques Dupont" and the other "Walid Ben Said" you can be sure which one will be chosen.

I once was sent by the Job Office for an interview. When I arrived the Director told me straightaway that he didn't want a woman in his department since, I quote, "women are not able to do overtime because of their domestic obligations" and "they are always having children". I asked why I had been called for interview and he replied that he was obliged to so as not to be accused of discrimination.

So I was very surprised when they offered me the job. When I contacted the Director and asked him why they were offering me the job when he didn't want to hire a woman he replied "The only other candidates were Arabs and I'd rather have a woman in my department than an Arab".
QCFD.

Yikes Vic was that in Turkey or your home country in the UK?Posted Image

I'm sorry Vic but personally, i would have walked out when that Director said he didn't want a woman working in the department. His reasons were superficial and stereotypical. And really doesn't surprise me that he would also feel bigoted towards Arabs. Posted Image Maybe its a good job otherwise, but I am just curious. Didn't you feel like you were still discriminated against because he "settled" on offering you the job simply because he didn't like the nationality of the other applicants who qualified? But maybe I misunderstand. I hope you don't mind me sincerely airing my opinion, but that does not sound like someone I'd want to work under.

#7 Vic801

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Posted 26 January 2012 - 11:18 PM

I quite understand, Reyhan, and agree with you. (This wasn't in Turkey, by the way, it was in the south of France). When I was in the interview I was appalled and shocked and then thought it was obviously an interview technique to see how you react, you know, like the thing about arranging the blinds so you get a ray of sunlight right in your eyes, to see how assertive you are.Of course when I realised that it wasn't bluff and given the reasons for my having been chosen, I was humiliated to be offered the job. Unfortunately I was not in a position to refuse any job since I had a 4-year loan to pay back my diploma and no unemployment benefit and I'd been looking for a job for 6 months and had already sent 284 spec.letters with no success. So I had to sink my pride, you can't eat principles!However I did learn a lot from my time there, not least about how to take a deep breath and not throttle your boss, how to have fun undermining the system from the inside and how to accept that a popo delik is a popo delik and will probably remain one for the rest of his life.

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#8 sunny

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Posted 26 January 2012 - 11:54 PM

"...... popo delik is a popo delik and will probably remain one for the rest of his life. "

Love that description. I must remember that. :D
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#9 MutluKadin

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Posted 27 January 2012 - 06:35 PM

WOW, Vic. That is so blatant!Here in the States, it's almost the opposite- employers are so paranoid about being accused of discrimination, you almost have an edge being a minority! Of course, it's a very controversial topic, but I know there's a lot of pressure to hire people of color if you don't already have a diverse staff.As far as age discrimination, I try to keep telling my husband that the age issue isn't one here in the States as it is in Turkey. His career in Istanbul was in advertising and PR where image is everything and he thinks that at 30, he's too old to be starting all over here. He said in Turkey, he'd only have five good years left!Here, experince is valued, and that only comes with age... True, you can hire a younger person who's willing to work for less money, but many times, you get what you pay for. Then again, just because you've done something for a longer time, doesn't mean you've been doing it WELL...It should all just come down to the better candidate, be it Black, Latino, Female, Muslim, Gay or any other marginalized portion of society!

#10 Vic801

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Posted 27 January 2012 - 07:33 PM

It should all just come down to the better candidate, be it Black, Latino, Female, Muslim, Gay or any other marginalized portion of society!

I agree, I am totally against positive discrimination as I feel it must be degrading to be considered by your colleagues as the token black, disabled lesbian single mother.
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#11 Fil

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Posted 27 January 2012 - 07:39 PM

But shouldn't that be deliği?Was this in France Vic? There are so many wonderful ways to describe that guy in French. Salaud. Espece de con. Putain. Sounds like he would be played by Alain Delon with you played by Nathalie Baye in the 1975 film version of your life.Ooh I have used naughty words. I wonder if they will get past the automatic expletive deleter.
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#12 Vic801

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Posted 27 January 2012 - 08:24 PM

In fact I learned today that it should be "göt deliği" ?I think calling that guy a salaud would be giving him too much importance - he was, and probably still is, just a trou du cul. I just meant to show that you can have all the anti-discrimination laws that you want, some people will never change.Thank you for the Nathalie Baye comparaison though!

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#13 KKW

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Posted 28 January 2012 - 10:03 AM

If he's Turkish, he's a "bok kafa". Posted Image

#14 sunny

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Posted 28 January 2012 - 10:52 AM

Should we be teaching our nice polite members how to sling insults in Turkish? Posted Image Posted Image Posted Image
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#15 Vic801

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Posted 28 January 2012 - 12:26 PM

Yes, please!!! Well, at least to be able to recognise them is always useful.

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#16 Bengu

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Posted 28 January 2012 - 02:34 PM

g. deligi is very slang lolthere is even a more specific word it but I think I shouldnt write :)))Mutlukadin is there a discrimination for obese people in USA?

#17 MutluKadin

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Posted 28 January 2012 - 02:57 PM

You aren't allowed to discriminate for anything not related to the job. If you can do the job being obese, then it shouldn't matter. In fact, I belive it was the airlines who started suing for this. In the 60's, stewardesses had to maintain the weight at which they were hired. Now, I don't think that's fair. As long as you can still pour drinks and be nice, so what? However, if you can no longer go down the isle, that's another story. Still, I bet they'd now find that person a desk job rather than terminating.However, I am about to say something very unpopular- I think it's unfair that obese people get to use more health care benefits than thin, healthy people. Where I work, there have been many people who have had knee replacements, have Type Two diabetes and are insulin dependent, are on heart or blood pressure meds, even get gastric bypass- all using insurance covereage. They also take off more time from work, costing the company money and get sick more often. And obesity is preventable. Me??? I PAY to work out at the gym, watch what I eat, and do everything I can to be healthy and I can't even get a massage covered by insurance! I think people who take measures to stay healthy should get some type of bonus or kickback for NOT contributing to all those unnecessary costs. I feel treated unfairly because I am fit and trim! Why is the healthcare industry only focused on when you get sick, NOT on good HEALTH??? Bet it has something to do with drug companies and $$$...More about discrimination- my husband and I were just talking about this one restaurant here in the States. It's called HOOters, and they are known for big-breasted women in short shorts. How can they do that? If it's a private establishment, then you can do what you want, but this is an equal opportunity employer that has chains all over the US. I should google that and see if they ever had a lawsuit.

#18 Vic801

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Posted 28 January 2012 - 03:03 PM

Mutlu, I heard and read about Hooters when there was talk of their opening a branch in Istanbul. I had to look up hooters in the dictionnary to find out what it meant (had guessed a litlle by the photos on their website) but find it utterly offensive. What type of sad guy hangs around in that sort of tacky place? And as you say, how can that slip through the equal opportunity lark?

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#19 sunny

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Posted 28 January 2012 - 08:53 PM

There is a lot of similar discussion on the same topic in the UK Mutlukadin but there are strict anti discrimination laws although I think people find ways around them. Also people suggest that when flying people and their luggage should be weighed with those being over a certain level being charged extra and/or if a person is going to overflow into the next seat they should be charged for it.
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#20 Vic801

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Posted 28 January 2012 - 09:20 PM

It would be unfair to say that everyone who is obese could prevent it, there are unfortunate people with thyroid problems or who have had long cortisone treatments.But I do agree with you Mutlu that companies should be encouraged to encourage healthy habits and a lot of corporate companies do pay 50% of your annual gym or sports club subscription.

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