69 replies to this topic

[Sparkle16]

Hi Rain - I just wanted to add in my two cents too. I always find it helps to put the shoe on the other foot. I think in this case you have to ask yourself, "why"? Why would a young man be interested in a relationship with you. Don't get me wrong - I don't think the age thing has to be an issue but I think it becomes more relevant when you haven't met in person. I have been to Turkey on numerous occasions and believe me when I say Turkish woman are very attractive. I am not talking about the ones that live in the villages but the young women of Turkey that are young, educated and working and living a Westernized life. They can be very beautiful. But these woman are not interested in uneducated, village born men who haven't progressed enough. Those are the types of men that try to find an older woman because they think older means more money and being more vulnerable. Turkish men are very handsome, I absolutely agree and they use what they have to charm and flatter. They have watched their friends form relationships and improve their lives and it is acceptable to do this in their eyes. As a westerner we would consider this very dishonest and immoral but they do not. They call it survival. The fact that you say your friend speaks basic English means that he is uneducated with no formal University or higher learning skills as most Turks who are professional and working speak excellent English.

I have to ask you why you would be interested in this fellow? Everybody on this forum is being honest and telling you what it is and you insist that you won't get hurt, won't allow him to abuse you etc etc but the fact is you are already emotionally involved with him or else you would have taken their advice and moved on.

It is a sad world right now for women; because we have the money and the freedom to explore the world at large but we are vulnerable in the sense that in alot of countries where there are poor young men - they feel we are stupid and love starved enough to fall for their lines. I myself had an experience with a Turkish fellow which ended on good terms as friends but the reality is - our culture is different, our language is different, our roles in society are different, we have different economic backgrounds and we are free to move around the world - they aren't. It is easy to understand why they want to form relationships with us but really you have to distant yourself from the situation and really look at it with clear eyes. So what - he is good looking, big deal. That won't mean diddly squat when he comes to the US and can't get a decent job, has trouble with the language and doesn't understand why you want to go out with your girlfriends for a drink after work.

Young men like him are desperate to improve their lives and you are a ticket to a better life. Please believe me when I say - I don't want to insult or hurt you but the writing is on the wall. I hope you take the time to really think this through.

Good Luck

[Reyhan]

Merhaba, Reyhan! Ve Sıcak bir karşılama için teşekkür ederiz! Yes, I have enjoyed this Forum thus far! It is good to get as much advice and info as possible. However, I don't feel that I am in a "situation" so-to-speak. Just wanted to share my story. I've never talked to someone over the Internet that I do not know, so this "cyber-relationship" is new to me. But, it seems that to everyone on this Forum feels or see Turkish men as "Taboo". At first, I thought it was because I am part Black, however, I don't "believe" that is the case. Nonetheless, I have been really listening to what responders are saying, and taking it all to heart. Anyway, I wish you the best with your man, and hope that you are being very cautious as well. I, for one, wouldn't say that I am in an LDR. But, I do hope that you can hang in there until whatever you and your guy wants to come to fruition. When I say that I am not in an LDR, I mean not in the sense that everyone seem to define "relationship". Any time you build a rapport with someone, some type of relationship has been created. This does not necessarily mean a "courtship". It simply means that you are "getting to know" someone. And, that is what I am doing with this guy. But, it seems that because of my involvement with him, and the fact that I am intrigued by his looks (and, he is VERY handsome), I'm putting myself in danger. I've been told that "I can't see". I've been told that "I have no control over my heart"! And, that I am over zealous (in so many words) because of some leverage that I have living in the U.S and the back-up support that I have. All of this has been miscontrued, and blown way out of proportion (to me), but I could be wrong, and I am mature enough to admit that. However, I will remain vigilant and cautious, as I have been more than properly trained to look for and sight tell-tale signs in just about anyone and in just about any situation. But, I will keep this Forum posted on my "wired up" Turkish aquaintance. As for me knowing the Turkish language, I have learned quite a bit, and could get by on the streets there fairly well with what I've learned thus far.

Tesekkur ederim, Reyhan. All the best to you! I hope to hear from you again soon!

Cares,

Rain

Cool that you are so confident with the language! I really would like to study it more in-depth (so I ould speak it confidently) but I should complete my Associates before I can devote all my time to the language. When I complete the diploma, I want to start taking classes for Turkish. Thats the plan now anyway, but Ive probably got another 2 or 3 years before thats done. I'll just have to see what happens with us though, but really hope I am still with him then. In the mean time, for the last year, Ive been reading and studying the grammar, listening, and writing, but I really need to practice speaking it more.

Thanks for the well wishes for me and my guy (he needs a forum nickname ) I get what you mean, about getting to know someone. It was like that in the beginning for me as well. And we're definitely still taking things slow, and just living our lives both hoping we can meet in person soon

You know that man and yourself the most of anyone here so I suppose just take what people say with a grain of salt. Im sure you understand they mean well and just don't want to hear of you being hurt. If you want to chat, you are welcome to PM me anytime. Maybe we can chat about Turkish language

[RainSoleil]

Sorry rain I must have missed that question in your first post. I can't answer about how difficult it is to get a visa for the US as we haven't had much input on that from our American members. However, if the American system works the same way as the British system it may be turn out to be impossible for your Turkish friend to get a visitors visa, The main reasons being He is a seasonal work You and he have never met There is a big age difference Generally even rich Turks wanting to go abroad for business more often than not are denied a visa and the difficulties of Turks getting any sort of visa are often discussed in the Turkish papers. As far as Turkish man being taboo on this forum that isn't strictly true. I would say that everyone that has posted is married or has been married to a Turk or are or have been in a relationship with one. Also the majority of us are living here full time and have been for some years. I have a friend who lives in the Gambia and the things that you read on this forum also apply to what goes on in the Gambia. There are successful marriages/relationships and always please to read about them, but we do know of too many females on and off the forum, of all ages. that have been deceived badly by some of these man and as a forum it would be wrong of us not to confirm that you are wise to be cautious as you are being. This is a friendly forum and I'm sorry if any of the comments have upset you as they weren't meant to in any way, it's just that we like to look out for people in a bid to save them from a bad experience if we can.

Hi Abi. Not at all upset, but, concerned about "assumptions" that are being made, is all. I want to hear as much sound advice as I can, but not advice made on assumption which will not help me at all. While I am totally convinced that (obviously) Turkey has a reputation of having some pretty unsuspecting characters that prey on people for personal gain. Would you say that Turkish females are capable of the same? I can't see where "every male" in Turkey has this agenda. Not that I'm saying that this guy doesn't. I know very well that it is possible. But, with this experience that everyone seem to have who has "been there, done that", has there ever been a case where the "sterotyping" was wrong? I mean being part Black, I know what it feels like to be sterotyped. While I know that there is a lot of bad, not only in Blacks, but in every Race on the face of this earth, there is just as much good! I believe in fair game. Whereas my friend seems pretty genuine, (and all the advice on this Forum seems to believe that this is their MO), I still do not feel threatened by him or what his motives might be if they are of sinister nature, because I am (as everyone has advised) very cautious! My antennas are always up! No matter how clever or decietful this guy may be, I am constantly interrogating him (if you will), and thus far he has not tripped up. And, I do understand that the fact that he has not "tripped up" so-to-speak, doesn't mean that something has not gotten pass me. I am welll trained, but no where near perfect in this training. We've had on going conversations since March, and "as of yet" he had not asked me for anything. Now to me, if it's as difficult to get a Visa for the U.S. as has been said, I would venture to think that he wouldn't be wasting time talking to me and not try to get anything out of me, unless (and this is very possible, I know!) he is just being patient and buying time to feel me out. He's the one who mentioned trying to obtain a Visa to visit and was denied. And, after being denied, he still has not asked for my help on anything. I don't know. But, I do know that our conversations are very casual, and I have not witnessed anything "suspect" yet. So, I will continue to listen to advice and similar stories of experience on this vehicle and see just where it leads me.

Thanks Abi!

Talk soon!

Rain

Hi Rain - I just wanted to add in my two cents too. I always find it helps to put the shoe on the other foot. I think in this case you have to ask yourself, "why"? Why would a young man be interested in a relationship with you. Don't get me wrong - I don't think the age thing has to be an issue but I think it becomes more relevant when you haven't met in person. I have been to Turkey on numerous occasions and believe me when I say Turkish woman are very attractive. I am not talking about the ones that live in the villages but the young women of Turkey that are young, educated and working and living a Westernized life. They can be very beautiful. But these woman are not interested in uneducated, village born men who haven't progressed enough. Those are the types of men that try to find an older woman because they think older means more money and being more vulnerable. Turkish men are very handsome, I absolutely agree and they use what they have to charm and flatter. They have watched their friends form relationships and improve their lives and it is acceptable to do this in their eyes. As a westerner we would consider this very dishonest and immoral but they do not. They call it survival. The fact that you say your friend speaks basic English means that he is uneducated with no formal University or higher learning skills as most Turks who are professional and working speak excellent English.

I have to ask you why you would be interested in this fellow? Everybody on this forum is being honest and telling you what it is and you insist that you won't get hurt, won't allow him to abuse you etc etc but the fact is you are already emotionally involved with him or else you would have taken their advice and moved on.

It is a sad world right now for women; because we have the money and the freedom to explore the world at large but we are vulnerable in the sense that in alot of countries where there are poor young men - they feel we are stupid and love starved enough to fall for their lines. I myself had an experience with a Turkish fellow which ended on good terms as friends but the reality is - our culture is different, our language is different, our roles in society are different, we have different economic backgrounds and we are free to move around the world - they aren't. It is easy to understand why they want to form relationships with us but really you have to distant yourself from the situation and really look at it with clear eyes. So what - he is good looking, big deal. That won't mean diddly squat when he comes to the US and can't get a decent job, has trouble with the language and doesn't understand why you want to go out with your girlfriends for a drink after work.

Young men like him are desperate to improve their lives and you are a ticket to a better life. Please believe me when I say - I don't want to insult or hurt you but the writing is on the wall. I hope you take the time to really think this through.

Good Luck

Hi Sparkle. Thank you for you very forward and sound advice! Believe me, I hear ya! But, just because I talk to this guy does not make me neither blind nor vulnerable. I have male friends right here that are users (yes, I know that they are not Turkish), and they are still friends who have NEVER used me. I think people are easily used when they are blind and vulnerable. Which I am neither. I have not committed to anything! And, I have mentioned several times about the beauty and intellect about Turkish women. As a matter of fact, everything that has been suggested or advised here has been discussed with this man. Noooo, it doesn't mean that his responses are on the up and up, just stating the fact that I am not blind. Yes my feelings are involved, but only to the point of what I see. You're right, "So what he's good-looking!", but honestly this is what intrigues. So, there for the feeling are physical and not emotional. Physical feelings can be dropped like a "bad habit" if the emotional ones don't soon follow. If you've read all of my responses, you will see that I have said many times that I AM NOT at the "Point of No Return". His looks are not so overwhelming that I am at insanity's edge. I have many friends with me when we are Skyping and have met and talked with him. Not that this means apples or oranges. However, I will continue to use the advice taken from this Forum as I speak to my friend and analyze the situation from there. Thanks again!

Best,

Rain

Cool that you are so confident with the language! I really would like to study it more in-depth (so I ould speak it confidently) but I should complete my Associates before I can devote all my time to the language. When I complete the diploma, I want to start taking classes for Turkish. Thats the plan now anyway, but Ive probably got another 2 or 3 years before thats done. I'll just have to see what happens with us though, but really hope I am still with him then. In the mean time, for the last year, Ive been reading and studying the grammar, listening, and writing, but I really need to practice speaking it more.

Thanks for the well wishes for me and my guy (he needs a forum nickname ) I get what you mean, about getting to know someone. It was like that in the beginning for me as well. And we're definitely still taking things slow, and just living our lives both hoping we can meet in person soon

You know that man and yourself the most of anyone here so I suppose just take what people say with a grain of salt. Im sure you understand they mean well and just don't want to hear of you being hurt. If you want to chat, you are welcome to PM me anytime. Maybe we can chat about Turkish language

Thanks Reyhan, I have enjoyed talking with you the most! I would love to chat "Turkish"! Also, you seem to be very emotionally involved with your man. But, having never met, I would give the same advice that I've been given....Be careful! However, I wish you the best, as I LOVE happy endings. Take care! Talk soon!

Rain

[Sparkle16]

Hi Rain, You are certainly taking all our unsolicited advice with good humor, I do have to say. I have to admit that the first time I went to Turkey, I fell in love with everything about the culture. They almost remind me of the Italians in their sense of style, art and fashion. I love the country and if I could figure out a way to live there legally, I would. Istanbul is one of my most favorite cities in the world that I have seen so far. Couple that with handsome and charming younger men who are attentive and flattering, what's not to like.

You will have a distinct advantage speaking the language- if you are able, jump on a plane and visit Turkey, it will not disappoint and I have traveled there many times as a single woman on my own and never felt unsafe. Turkish people are very gracious and helpful. You can meet your friend, if it doesn't work out; doesn't matter you will have been exposed to a really beautiful country and culture and come back all the wiser. I do say this with the caveat that you take all the normal safety precautions. But you are a mature lady so we don't have to worry.

I do know that getting a visitor visa to Canada means the only way is if they are sponsored or a student registered in an educational institution or else you arrive with pockets full of loonies ready to start your own business and coming to check out the business prospects. If they come as a fiancé or live in partner, I assume all financial responsibility for that person for 5 years. I have to sponsor them completely and if they take off, I am left holding the debt they incur. Very scary proposition! From what I have read it is a very similar situation in the US. It is not as simple for them as it is for us. That is what I meant about being free to move around the world. When I go to Turkey, just like an American I go to the counter at the airport , hand over $60.00 and Presto, I have a visitor visa for Turkey. The Turks don't have that freedom. Anyway, I wish you well and hope you get a chance to visit this beautiful country regardless of what happens with this man.

[Lizaliza]

Hi Abi. Not at all upset, but, concerned about "assumptions" that are being made, is all. I want to hear as much sound advice as I can, but not advice made on assumption which will not help me at all. While I am totally convinced that (obviously) Turkey has a reputation of having some pretty unsuspecting characters that prey on people for personal gain. Would you say that Turkish females are capable of the same? I can't see where "every male" in Turkey has this agenda. Not that I'm saying that this guy doesn't. I know very well that it is possible. But, with this experience that everyone seem to have who has "been there, done that", has there ever been a case where the "sterotyping" was wrong? I mean being part Black, I know what it feels like to be sterotyped. While I know that there is a lot of bad, not only in Blacks, but in every Race on the face of this earth, there is just as much good! I believe in fair game. Whereas my friend seems pretty genuine, (and all the advice on this Forum seems to believe that this is their MO), I still do not feel threatened by him or what his motives might be if they are of sinister nature, because I am (as everyone has advised) very cautious! My antennas are always up! No matter how clever or decietful this guy may be, I am constantly interrogating him (if you will), and thus far he has not tripped up. And, I do understand that the fact that he has not "tripped up" so-to-speak, doesn't mean that something has not gotten pass me. I am welll trained, but no where near perfect in this training. We've had on going conversations since March, and "as of yet" he had not asked me for anything. Now to me, if it's as difficult to get a Visa for the U.S. as has been said, I would venture to think that he wouldn't be wasting time talking to me and not try to get anything out of me, unless (and this is very possible, I know!) he is just being patient and buying time to feel me out. He's the one who mentioned trying to obtain a Visa to visit and was denied. And, after being denied, he still has not asked for my help on anything. I don't know. But, I do know that our conversations are very casual, and I have not witnessed anything "suspect" yet. So, I will continue to listen to advice and similar stories of experience on this vehicle and see just where it leads me.

Thanks Abi!

Talk soon!

Rain

Hi Sparkle. Thank you for you very forward and sound advice! Believe me, I hear ya! But, just because I talk to this guy does not make me neither blind nor vulnerable. I have male friends right here that are users (yes, I know that they are not Turkish), and they are still friends who have NEVER used me. I think people are easily used when they are blind and vulnerable. Which I am neither. I have not committed to anything! And, I have mentioned several times about the beauty and intellect about Turkish women. As a matter of fact, everything that has been suggested or advised here has been discussed with this man. Noooo, it doesn't mean that his responses are on the up and up, just stating the fact that I am not blind. Yes my feelings are involved, but only to the point of what I see. You're right, "So what he's good-looking!", but honestly this is what intrigues. So, there for the feeling are physical and not emotional. Physical feelings can be dropped like a "bad habit" if the emotional ones don't soon follow. If you've read all of my responses, you will see that I have said many times that I AM NOT at the "Point of No Return". His looks are not so overwhelming that I am at insanity's edge. I have many friends with me when we are Skyping and have met and talked with him. Not that this means apples or oranges. However, I will continue to use the advice taken from this Forum as I speak to my friend and analyze the situation from there. Thanks again!

Best,

Rain

Thanks Reyhan, I have enjoyed talking with you the most! I would love to chat "Turkish"! Also, you seem to be very emotionally involved with your man. But, having never met, I would give the same advice that I've been given....Be careful! However, I wish you the best, as I LOVE happy endings. Take care! Talk soon!

Rain

Hi Rain, you did at the very beginning say that you would welcome the advice from experienced members on here, and you've had a lot of really excellent advice, especially from Abi, Kadar and Sparkle, But, and I hope you don't take this the wrong way, I detect you only want to hear what YOU want to hear, which is why you told Reyhan you liked her post the most. I guess because Reyhan is in a similar situation as yourself, and has advised you to take members advice on here 'with a grain of salt' that it helps keep your boat floating so to speak (no offence to you, Reyhan! I'm sure you mean well ) But much of the advice you have been given on here is REALLY top class advice, from intelligent, knowledgeable people who have a vast wealth of experience, so if you are cherry picking your advice you are really doing yourself a disservice.

It's never easy for anyone to face up to the realisation that a man could be disingenuous and insincere, but as adults we need to protect ourselves to the best of our abilities, and with the advice and information you've been given on Turkish men (in particular this Turkish man you've met online) you should sit yourself down and really think about everything that's been said, and ask yourself why most every one of the experienced members are of the same mindset. All we are doing is trying to help you, even if it isn't what you want to hear.

You constantly repeat yourself and say you have power, and that no man has EVER fooled you, and that you're no pushover, but when people keep repeating themselves like that it's usually because they're trying to convince themselves that it's true......You said in your post ' No matter how clever or decietful this guy may be, I am constantly interrogating him (if you will), and thus far he has not tripped up.' Firstly, you need to ask yourself just why you feel the need to constantly interrogate him (what makes you so suspicious of him? ) and you need to ask yourself why he puts up with your constant interrogation. Most men would be offended at constant interrogation, especially from someone they haven't even met! But I'm wondering just how you interrogate him anyway, when you don't speak the same language! Well, a little maybe..

Sparkle is correct when she says that young, beautiful Westernised women in Turkey would not entertain an uneducated man from a village with few prospects. Those type of women want an educated man who has good career prospects, and men like that don't need to hunt down women on the internet, they have thousands of very suitable girls on their own doorstep! Lucky for them! But the men such as your friend will still have the opportunity to meet a young, beautiful village woman, who may not be Westernised, but then men like him do not want a Westernised woman anyway. They want a local village woman. You need to ask yourself why an uneducated man such as him, who has never stepped foot out of Turkey, would want to fly all the way to America to meet a woman old enough to be his mother, and with whom he can hardly hold a conversation. Most men would balk at the prospect of doing that!

It's easier for YOU to go to Turkey to visit him, so why isn't that happening? Why has he tried to come to America to see you, when I doubt very much he can even afford the air fare! You even seem to have doubts about him being refused a viza (which shows how little you trust this man anyway!) but as people have already said, vizas are very hard to get for Turkish men, which is why they seek out women in the US or UK to help them get one! All Turkish men who have a plan will make out to you that they want you to live in Turkey, but that's just reverse psychology, these men aren't totally stupid! And of course he's not going to ask you for money or gifts at this stage, he's still got his eyes very firmly fixed on that viza.

I hope you don't take my words the wrong way, but I do know what I'm talking about and you would be wise to take all this on board. Remember, there's plenty more fish in the sea!

Good luck!

L x

[RainSoleil]

Hi Rain, you did at the very beginning say that you would welcome the advice from experienced members on here, and you've had a lot of really excellent advice, especially from Abi, Kadar and Sparkle, But, and I hope you don't take this the wrong way, I detect you only want to hear what YOU want to hear, which is why you told Reyhan you liked her post the most. I guess because Reyhan is in a similar situation as yourself, and has advised you to take members advice on here 'with a grain of salt' that it helps keep your boat floating so to speak (no offence to you, Reyhan! I'm sure you mean well ) But much of the advice you have been given on here is REALLY top class advice, from intelligent, knowledgeable people who have a vast wealth of experience, so if you are cherry picking your advice you are really doing yourself a disservice.

It's never easy for anyone to face up to the realisation that a man could be disingenuous and insincere, but as adults we need to protect ourselves to the best of our abilities, and with the advice and information you've been given on Turkish men (in particular this Turkish man you've met online) you should sit yourself down and really think about everything that's been said, and ask yourself why most every one of the experienced members are of the same mindset. All we are doing is trying to help you, even if it isn't what you want to hear.

You constantly repeat yourself and say you have power, and that no man has EVER fooled you, and that you're no pushover, but when people keep repeating themselves like that it's usually because they're trying to convince themselves that it's true......You said in your post ' No matter how clever or decietful this guy may be, I am constantly interrogating him (if you will), and thus far he has not tripped up.' Firstly, you need to ask yourself just why you feel the need to constantly interrogate him (what makes you so suspicious of him? ) and you need to ask yourself why he puts up with your constant interrogation. Most men would be offended at constant interrogation, especially from someone they haven't even met! But I'm wondering just how you interrogate him anyway, when you don't speak the same language! Well, a little maybe..

Sparkle is correct when she says that young, beautiful Westernised women in Turkey would not entertain an uneducated man from a village with few prospects. Those type of women want an educated man who has good career prospects, and men like that don't need to hunt down women on the internet, they have thousands of very suitable girls on their own doorstep! Lucky for them! But the men such as your friend will still have the opportunity to meet a young, beautiful village woman, who may not be Westernised, but then men like him do not want a Westernised woman anyway. They want a local village woman. You need to ask yourself why an uneducated man such as him, who has never stepped foot out of Turkey, would want to fly all the way to America to meet a woman old enough to be his mother, and with whom he can hardly hold a conversation. Most men would balk at the prospect of doing that!

It's easier for YOU to go to Turkey to visit him, so why isn't that happening? Why has he tried to come to America to see you, when I doubt very much he can even afford the air fare! You even seem to have doubts about him being refused a viza (which shows how little you trust this man anyway!) but as people have already said, vizas are very hard to get for Turkish men, which is why they seek out women in the US or UK to help them get one! All Turkish men who have a plan will make out to you that they want you to live in Turkey, but that's just reverse psychology, these men aren't totally stupid! And of course he's not going to ask you for money or gifts at this stage, he's still got his eyes very firmly fixed on that viza.

I hope you don't take my words the wrong way, but I do know what I'm talking about and you would be wise to take all this on board. Remember, there's plenty more fish in the sea!

Good luck!

L x

Liza, again, assumptions. Reyhan's situaiton being similar to my own has nothing to do with we hearing what "I" want to hear. The fact that she's not prejudging or making assumptions as you made several times in your previous post is why it was a pleasant read for me. Yes, I openly welcome advice. But, I will say again, that advice given from obvious "assumptions" is of no use to me. And, if I were taking members' advice "with a grain of salt" I would not continue to post on this Forum. The advice is fine, but, when assumptions [assumption number 1: "when he has never set foot out of Turkey] (where did you get this?) are being made on someone "these members" don't know any better than I do, then I can help but to be aggitated [he has been out of Turkey]. This is my nature in general. There could be a group of 20 women who dislike me because I don't fit into thier "click". They could spread rumors about me that are totally untrue based on my aquaintance with another group with a "true" bad reputation. Say another female comes to this group of 20 women who dislike me, she knows me, she is of noble character. Would it be fair or right for her to be influenced by their opinions? Say she didn't know me. Would she be fair or right, in this case as well, to to dislike me? If you've read all of my responses, you would see that I am not defending those [Turkish guys] who do prey on poor, unsuspecting souls. No matter how experienced is on any matter, there's always that narrow window that even the most experienced can be wrong. Ask any scientist. I also stated in many of my responses that I don't dismiss the fact that this guy could be just as the "experienced panel" has labeled him. You asked why I feel the need to interrogate him. Well, firstly, I am "trained" to do this in a way that he would never suspect (but, please, this has nothing to do with "power" that everyone has blown completely out of proportion), just everything to do with what I am professionally trained to do. I mean I have professional "experience", just as members on this sight have being knowledgeable of these characters. What? Members can stress the experience that they have and I can't...without it being taking out of context? And, as far as why I interrogate, I don't know anyone who wouldn't who has met someone on the internet. Please know that with all the dating sites out there today, this kind of interrogating goes on EVERY SINGLE DAY...not just by me and my case, but countless others. I would be crazy not to do this. By nature, I not only do this to this "internet" fella, but those I meet right here at home as well. You mean to tell me that you would date anyone, without going about your own way to find out what you need to know. It's not a matter of not trusting, but finding reasons that you can trust. I think, [though it may well be typical as witnessed by you "experienced" members] the MO of these fellas, no matter how typical, I find it brash to call this guy (in so many words) a slumdog. Again, it is my caring nature (and, please do not view this as a weakness!) to not pre-judge someone who I don't even know. If I get to know them, and then see for myself, I can call the kettle black. Stating again, that being half Black, I know more than enough of what it feels like to be sterotyped, and so I do it to no one, no matter where they are from, unless I get to know them personally to be as labeled. The "experienced members" seem to totally exclude [them] from humanity and grant not a one of them any benefit of doubt. I am not defending my friend, but, giving the whole lot of them "some" benefit of doubt. Jesus wrote in the dirt and told the accusers who wanted to stone the prostitute, "let the one who is without sin throw the first stone." Jesus knew that she was a prostitute, but forgave her, and so she had a chance to live a clean life. I don't know my friend personally, and neither do any of you. So, I think it is very unfair that [he] is being labeled like this by people he don't know or know him. It is one thing to give advice. But, it is another to judge this man and call him what you have called him and you don't even know him. I think a lot of statements on this Forum have been pretty vacuous, and relativistic. It may very well be that the [Turkish] guys are full of ethical egosim, and that being if you know them personally. I grant no countenance to anyone I know to be of certain character. But, by the same token, if I don't know them, I don't just throw them in the fire either! And, just because I think the way that I do, doesn't mean that I am blind, stupid, or crazy. It simply means that I can 'be careful' and not pre-judge all at the same time. I'll grant the experience of the member here the deserved respect, but have no tolerance for slander of someone you don't even know based on modus operandi. It just isn't fair!!! As, I have been judged like this before and none of the smear was true! Again, the guy might be everything that "you experienced" say, but know that because you don't know him, you could be doing him a great disservice. Are you getting my point here? I am not defending him, but, any and everyone who is labeled [and not even known] a certain way because they fall within a certain group. In any situation, what kind of chance does that one good apple stand that surrounded by the whole basket of bad ones? In this world? Absolutely none! Because forgiveness and compassion has been thrown out with the baby. Instead of helping each other, no one, but those of us who think we are fairly good deserves a chance. Now that's the sad world that we live in. We see fake reflections in the mirror, and throw stones in glass houses. I am educated, intelligent, and somewhat attractive. But, in essence as a sinner and in God's eyes, I am no better than what you think of this guy (whom you've all but called a slumdog), and neither is anyone else. We think seem to think as educated and intellectual people that we have the right to belittle those who are not. When in fact, I know many people who are not as well educated as myself to be just as smart from, guess what?, "experience". Please do not take what I have said the wrong way. I have responded based on what I read from you, trying to anlayze and be careful at the same time, everything that you said. All I ask of this Forum is not to make responses to me or anyone based on assumptions. And, as far as being accused of constantly repeating myself re: power, I threw that out of the subject about 10 responses ago, as I don't have to convince myself of anything. So, keep sharing the advice, and I will keep taking it to heart. And, not as you would suppose (the parts that I want to hear), but everything. That is...everything that is not based on an assumption.

My best to you Liza,

Rain

Liza, again, assumptions. Reyhan's situaiton being similar to my own has nothing to do with we hearing what "I" want to hear. The fact that she's not prejudging or making assumptions as you made several times in your previous post is why it was a pleasant read for me. Yes, I openly welcome advice. But, I will say again, that advice given from obvious "assumptions" is of no use to me. And, if I were taking members' advice "with a grain of salt" I would not continue to post on this Forum. The advice is fine, but, when assumptions [assumption number 1: "when he has never set foot out of Turkey] (where did you get this?) are being made on someone "these members" don't know any better than I do, then I can help but to be aggitated [he has been out of Turkey]. This is my nature in general. There could be a group of 20 women who dislike me because I don't fit into thier "click". They could spread rumors about me that are totally untrue based on my aquaintance with another group with a "true" bad reputation. Say another female comes to this group of 20 women who dislike me, she knows me, she is of noble character. Would it be fair or right for her to be influenced by their opinions? Say she didn't know me. Would she be fair or right, in this case as well, to to dislike me? If you've read all of my responses, you would see that I am not defending those [Turkish guys] who do prey on poor, unsuspecting souls. No matter how experienced is on any matter, there's always that narrow window that even the most experienced can be wrong. Ask any scientist. I also stated in many of my responses that I don't dismiss the fact that this guy could be just as the "experienced panel" has labeled him. You asked why I feel the need to interrogate him. Well, firstly, I am "trained" to do this in a way that he would never suspect (but, please, this has nothing to do with "power" that everyone has blown completely out of proportion), just everything to do with what I am professionally trained to do. I mean I have professional "experience", just as members on this sight have being knowledgeable of these characters. What? Members can stress the experience that they have and I can't...without it being taking out of context? And, as far as why I interrogate, I don't know anyone who wouldn't who has met someone on the internet. Please know that with all the dating sites out there today, this kind of interrogating goes on EVERY SINGLE DAY...not just by me and my case, but countless others. I would be crazy not to do this. By nature, I not only do this to this "internet" fella, but those I meet right here at home as well. You mean to tell me that you would date anyone, without going about your own way to find out what you need to know. It's not a matter of not trusting, but finding reasons that you can trust. I think, [though it may well be typical as witnessed by you "experienced" members] the MO of these fellas, no matter how typical, I find it brash to call this guy (in so many words) a slumdog. Again, it is my caring nature (and, please do not view this as a weakness!) to not pre-judge someone who I don't even know. If I get to know them, and then see for myself, I can call the kettle black. Stating again, that being half Black, I know more than enough of what it feels like to be sterotyped, and so I do it to no one, no matter where they are from, unless I get to know them personally to be as labeled. The "experienced members" seem to totally exclude [them] from humanity and grant not a one of them any benefit of doubt. I am not defending my friend, but, giving the whole lot of them "some" benefit of doubt. Jesus wrote in the dirt and told the accusers who wanted to stone the prostitute, "let the one who is without sin throw the first stone." Jesus knew that she was a prostitute, but forgave her, and so she had a chance to live a clean life. I don't know my friend personally, and neither do any of you. So, I think it is very unfair that [he] is being labeled like this by people he don't know or know him. It is one thing to give advice. But, it is another to judge this man and call him what you have called him and you don't even know him. I think a lot of statements on this Forum have been pretty vacuous, and relativistic. It may very well be that the [Turkish] guys are full of ethical egosim, and that being if you know them personally. I grant no countenance to anyone I know to be of certain character. But, by the same token, if I don't know them, I don't just throw them in the fire either! And, just because I think the way that I do, doesn't mean that I am blind, stupid, or crazy. It simply means that I can 'be careful' and not pre-judge all at the same time. I'll grant the experience of the member here the deserved respect, but have no tolerance for slander of someone you don't even know based on modus operandi. It just isn't fair!!! As, I have been judged like this before and none of the smear was true! Again, the guy might be everything that "you experienced" say, but know that because you don't know him, you could be doing him a great disservice. Are you getting my point here? I am not defending him, but, any and everyone who is labeled [and not even known] a certain way because they fall within a certain group. In any situation, what kind of chance does that one good apple stand that surrounded by the whole basket of bad ones? In this world? Absolutely none! Because forgiveness and compassion has been thrown out with the baby. Instead of helping each other, no one, but those of us who think we are fairly good deserves a chance. Now that's the sad world that we live in. We see fake reflections in the mirror, and throw stones in glass houses. I am educated, intelligent, and somewhat attractive. But, in essence as a sinner and in God's eyes, I am no better than what you think of this guy (whom you've all but called a slumdog), and neither is anyone else. We think seem to think as educated and intellectual people that we have the right to belittle those who are not. When in fact, I know many people who are not as well educated as myself to be just as smart from, guess what?, "experience". Please do not take what I have said the wrong way. I have responded based on what I read from you, trying to anlayze and be careful at the same time, everything that you said. All I ask of this Forum is not to make responses to me or anyone based on assumptions. And, as far as being accused of constantly repeating myself re: power, I threw that out of the subject about 10 responses ago, as I don't have to convince myself of anything. So, keep sharing the advice, and I will keep taking it to heart. And, not as you would suppose (the parts that I want to hear), but everything. That is...everything that is not based on an assumption. My best to you Liza, Rain

[Vic801]

Hello Rain
To an outsider (and after all we are all outsiders, only you know your own mind) your situation seems quite straightforward:
- you are both adults and know what you want from life
- you have made no commitments and are not emotionally involved enough to do so
- you do not plan to marry, so you do not have the complication of explaining to your son the fact that you are marrying a man who is as old as him
- he has not asked for money, you have not given it
- you find him charming and physically attractive and it is flattering to receive attention from a handsome younger man
- it is a safe cyber virtual relationship behind a computer screen with no question of getting deeply involved, getting pregant or worrying about who is paying the drinks!
- it is just harmless fun

But then again, if this is so, why the need for a "sounding board" for all your questions? If this is all it is, why not go ahead and enjoy since you are in no way emotionally involved.

Everyone is different and it is not easy to put yourself in other people's shoes, but what I can't figure out is why as an "educated, intelligent, and somewhat attractive" woman you are contenting yourself with a virtual, cyber relationship which is going nowhere instead of going out and meeting a real life, warm, flesh-and-blood guy who shares your interests and with whom you could build something durable. Maybe there are more risks involved but possibly more rewards?

All the best for whatever you decide is best for you
Vic

[Meral]

Seems like this discussion is going round in circles & getting nowhere....... what is the point ?

Rain, you are a mature, independent, attractive woman who knows what she wants. You have a response for any objection, and I salute you!

I hope you get the opportunity to meet this man in the near future, and you can be sure we are all interested to see how things develop.

Here's wishing you the best of luck !

[RainSoleil]

Hello Rain
To an outsider (and after all we are all outsiders, only you know your own mind) your situation seems quite straightforward:
- you are both adults and know what you want from life
- you have made no commitments and are not emotionally involved enough to do so
- you do not plan to marry, so you do not have the complication of explaining to your son the fact that you are marrying a man who is as old as him
- he has not asked for money, you have not given it
- you find him charming and physically attractive and it is flattering to receive attention from a handsome younger man
- it is a safe cyber virtual relationship behind a computer screen with no question of getting deeply involved, getting pregant or worrying about who is paying the drinks!
- it is just harmless fun

But then again, if this is so, why the need for a "sounding board" for all your questions? If this is all it is, why not go ahead and enjoy since you are in no way emotionally involved.

Everyone is different and it is not easy to put yourself in other people's shoes, but what I can't figure out is why as an "educated, intelligent, and somewhat attractive" woman you are contenting yourself with a virtual, cyber relationship which is going nowhere instead of going out and meeting a real life, warm, flesh-and-blood guy who shares your interests and with whom you could build something durable. Maybe there are more risks involved but possibly more rewards?

All the best for whatever you decide is best for you
Vic

Wow, why am I being so pounded on?!!! Even if you're just talking to someone in cyber world, shouldn't I still be cautious. Geez!!! If it's not one thing, it's another! No matter what kind of fun you're having, one need to ask questions. Only God knows where this will go. Even I'm not in control of that. But, I do know that I have not committed to anything. And, I do enjoy Skyping with him. It's not all "cyber". We can see each other. I will say that [whether he is genuine or not], i enjoy talking to him. I've even talked to his mother a couple of time. Not that all of this mean anything, but I enjoy our conversations. So even at this level I still think it wise to be cautious.

Seems like this discussion is going round in circles & getting nowhere....... what is the point ? Rain, you are a mature, independent, attractive woman who knows what she wants. You have a response for any objection, and I salute you! I hope you get the opportunity to meet this man in the near future, and you can be sure we are all interested to see how things develop. Here's wishing you the best of luck !

Meral, thanks! And, if you ever get that Cape and Tiara, please let me borrow. There's a little magic I need to make.

Thanks for your response.

Rain

[MutluKadin]

Vic-

I signed in just to comment to what you wrote!

After a few months of dating my now husband, I took a few measures to "protect" myself by being a little cautious and it hurt him so badly, I cannot tell you. Fortunately, he realized it was due to my 'suspicious' American culture and we got past it, but for him to know I did not completely trust him that far into the relationship almost destroyed it.

Rain, if you REALLY are like that with him all the time, then your relationship cannot grow. Go online, find some cheap tickets to fly out there and stay in a safe hotel. MEET the man and see how he treats you in person. You keep saying how intelligent and resourceful you are... Certainly a mature woman can handle the responsibilities of an international holiday for a week during the dead travel season???

Why are you waiting?

[ammo]

actually I dont get it, you say you have the power of the CIA and FBI behind you .. sorry but are u watching too much movies ?

Dont they have enough to do as to look for a bad ending love story ?

And i never saw you , but he is 19 years younger than you, what you give him that not another woamn can give him ? maybe u ask him this ... im maybe old fashioned but why u running into this, there are a lot good looking 50 years old man outside.

So to be honest, we need to need more about this guy , what he is working, is he earning good money ? does he likes his job ? this are facts where u can see if he is looking into moving to the US or if he is pretty much happy where he lives now.

Cauz if he is, i cant see a reason why he wants to use you, but if he is not than there is a big potential that he will .... but good luck hope it will have a happy ending

[Ahududu]

Hi Rain,
Welcome to the forum.
This is such an interesting thread, and I hope you'll post on others too!
I daren't think how many years of experience there is behind the women who have contributed to this thread, as girlfriends, wives, daughter-in-laws, sister-in-laws, and mothers, we have all experienced Turkey and its culture in so many ways.
I fully respect your philosophy to not pre-judge a person.
You must also understand how strong Turkish culture is, and how different it can seem to outsiders. I have been married for 12 years, and I can remember years ago teaching a young woman in Istanbul, and realising that just because a person wears designer jeans and carries a mobile phone, doesn't make them modern!! And that was a young, educated, 'western' woman. I can't begin to think how different a 19 year old, uneducated, seasonal worker (from the east?? Am I presuming?? Lol) could possibly be.
Because, you see Turkish culture can be so very strong. For a young man to work in a tourist area and be exposed to western, 'holiday' culture would be quite an eye opener for him, I think. He may think that all people from these western countries are the same, we don't know how open minded he is, because that is the key. He may have a pre-judgement about you because of his experiences of westerners.
To find a Turkish partner who is completely compatible with you is not impossible, after all, lots of us have done it, but, there again, maybe you're not after that.
Maybe Reyhan is the best person for you to talk to about this because she is in the same situation as you, the rest of us either live here, have visited, or are married.
I strongly recommend you take a trip to Turkey, you should visit cities and your friend's family, not just tourist areas.
All the best.

[Sparkle16]

Hi Rain - just caught up on the threads this morning and realized that this has been going on for months, not just a new thing. I really am curious why either you or Reyhan haven't gone to Turkey to meet these fellows. Reyhan mentioned that she has been cyberdating her fellow for 18 months . Are you nervous of traveling alone to Turkey? I can understand that. I was the first time but soon got over it. Maybe you don't have the vacation time or the expense is prohibitive.

It seems strange to me that you haven't jumped on a plane to go visit give the intensity of your arguments!. Aren't you curious? If he is just a friend, that is the best way to get an education about the country and you will be in safe hands.

Do you have plans to go visit him? I don't believe for a minute that he will pay for your ticket. "no problem" is the mantra of Turkish men. I don't know how many times I heard that from my Turkish friend. It is the most aggravating term. I have always translated it into meaning "I don't want to think about that right now and I am not going to do anything about that so I will tell you "no problem" so we can move past this conversation - someone other than me will handle this".

Be bold, go visit! Otherwise, if you are waiting for him to visit you - it will never happen and what is the point of continuing this cyberrelationship. If he is just a passing indulgence and you find him flattering, your time and energy is better spend in real life relationships.

Last word on my part - you obviously do exactly what you want to do and say exactly what you want to say so you don't need any help from me. It is your life and yours alone. You have been told the score so if you run into problems, it will be with your eyes wide open.

Good luck!

Sparkle

[dakar]

"After a few months of dating my now husband, I took a few measures to "protect" myself by being a little cautious and it hurt him so badly, I cannot tell you. Fortunately, he realized it was due to my 'suspicious' American culture and we got past it, but for him to know I did not completely trust him that far into the relationship almost destroyed it."

This I can believe. You dont want to get on the wrong side of a Turkish guy Rain.
Like I say ...."wired differently". Would a British guy have got so upset? Doubt it.

[RainSoleil]

Vic-

I signed in just to comment to what you wrote!

After a few months of dating my now husband, I took a few measures to "protect" myself by being a little cautious and it hurt him so badly, I cannot tell you. Fortunately, he realized it was due to my 'suspicious' American culture and we got past it, but for him to know I did not completely trust him that far into the relationship almost destroyed it.

Rain, if you REALLY are like that with him all the time, then your relationship cannot grow. Go online, find some cheap tickets to fly out there and stay in a safe hotel. MEET the man and see how he treats you in person. You keep saying how intelligent and resourceful you are... Certainly a mature woman can handle the responsibilities of an international holiday for a week during the dead travel season???

Why are you waiting?

Ok, first of all, though I used the strong word "interrogating", I am trained to do this so casually, that you or anyone else wouldn't even know it. Also, for every one question I ask him, he asks me two. These questions are not a drilling, back to back series of questions, but they are questions that are asked when the opportunity presents itself so that they just flow into the conversation. I don't play twenty questions with this guy; it's just that in our conversations questions come up. And, all of is not just "interrogating", most of it is curiosity. I have learned a bit about the Turkish culture over the period of months the I have been talking to this man, but know too, that there is still a whole world of information that I am still clueless about re: Turkey. But, anyway, back to your initial statement, I don't think I've scarred the man. He speaks up when he feels the need to, just as I do.

Let me explain about your suggestion to go over there. While I am intrigued by this man looks and charm (and this is all physical) my heart has not gotten to the point where a trip is warranted. Though I would love to visit Turkey, at the moment, it's because of the beauty of it. However, if I get to that point deeply, emotionally, and since it is hard for Turkish men to get Visas, I would not hesitate to fly over, but wisely "not alone"; and, that is whether I was going specifically to see this man, or just on holiday. Thanks Kadin for your advice. I am glad that your husband got past his hurt. I would venture to say that your husband is not a "village slumdog", as this guy I'm talking to has been labeled. Nonetheless, I'm happy to know that you are in a good marriage with your Turk!

Thanks again for your shared insight and experience.

Rain

[dakar]

Post deleted

[RainSoleil]

Hi Rain - just caught up on the threads this morning and realized that this has been going on for months, not just a new thing. I really am curious why either you or Reyhan haven't gone to Turkey to meet these fellows. Reyhan mentioned that she has been cyberdating her fellow for 18 months . Are you nervous of traveling alone to Turkey? I can understand that. I was the first time but soon got over it. Maybe you don't have the vacation time or the expense is prohibitive.

It seems strange to me that you haven't jumped on a plane to go visit give the intensity of your arguments!. Aren't you curious? If he is just a friend, that is the best way to get an education about the country and you will be in safe hands.

Do you have plans to go visit him? I don't believe for a minute that he will pay for your ticket. "no problem" is the mantra of Turkish men. I don't know how many times I heard that from my Turkish friend. It is the most aggravating term. I have always translated it into meaning "I don't want to think about that right now and I am not going to do anything about that so I will tell you "no problem" so we can move past this conversation - someone other than me will handle this".

Be bold, go visit! Otherwise, if you are waiting for him to visit you - it will never happen and what is the point of continuing this cyberrelationship. If he is just a passing indulgence and you find him flattering, your time and energy is better spend in real life relationships.

Last word on my part - you obviously do exactly what you want to do and say exactly what you want to say so you don't need any help from me. It is your life and yours alone. You have been told the score so if you run into problems, it will be with your eyes wide open.

Good luck!

Sparkle

Hi Sprakle, while I cannot speak for Reyhan, please be advised that though this man's looks intrigues me, that is not enough to warrant a trip to Turkey. As a matter of fact, long before I even met this man, I had thoughts of visiting Turkey to view its beauty on its soil. However, with all the negatives I've gotten here, I'm not so sure that I even want to visit for that, now. Let me share my opinion about some of the feedback I've gotten. In every post, I've shown thanks and appreciation for the "experienced" advice that I've been given. I do "hear" what everyone is saying, and have deep respect and consideration for this "experience." But, it seems that if I rebut something, I am stepping on the toes of the "experienced." This, to me, is coming across as very arrogant. It seems as if no one can agree to disagree. Not that I disagree with anyone, as I have NO experience with this culture. But, I will sound my voice if I am getting feedback based upon "assumption." And, I've heard some pretty ugly judgmental statements based on "assumption" regarding this man. I will admit that I am very assertive, and can also take assertiveness from others. But, I don't like it when it becomes pissing contest. So much advice has been given to be based on personally drawn conclusions. And, then there are times I feel like I'm being patronized just to be blown off. But, that's okay! My skin is tough and I can take it. And, as far as him paying my fare to come over there, when he said that, it didn't blow my skirt up in the least. Now whether his statement to pay my fare was true or not, my wise thinking would not have allowed me to accept anyway. He asked me if I would come to Turkey, and I simply asked him how I would get there; and him paying my fare was his response. Now if he up and tell me one day that he is prepared and ready to "send" for me (and, you all seem to think this will never happen...and that could very well be true!), then maybe I will be on this Forum seeking that "experienced" advice. However, again, I still don't think it wise to pick up and go to another country to meet a man I know very little about, I don't care how good he look!!! So, I probably wouldn't need that "experienced" advice after all. Who knows where my feelings will be in a couple of months if I am still talking to this man, let alone a couple of days. But, for now, it is only his looks and a little infatuation re: my feelings that I am drawn to. It might appear otherwise to the "experienced." But, rest assured, that's all it is on my part.

Anyway, thanks again Sparkle!

Cares,

Rain

[Fen]

This sound to me a lot like Rain is way too defensive to take any advice and yet she started to topic to hear opinions (and get advice). Something doesn't match here... sounds suspicious.

And I'm sorry if I come across harsh now - not my purpose but I don't know how to else to put my thoughts as words.

[RainSoleil]

Rain - Not a single person on this website would describe your lad as a "village slumdog". Far from it - most people, as outsiders here, are hyper sensitive to Turkey, the problems facing people that live all over the country - most of which are completely unfair and arbitrary. It's hard but that's how it is, esp for Kurds. But I will tell you this honestly as a British woman who knows Turkey, had a relationship with a Kurdish man and has also lived and worked in the States (Vermont and Los Angeles) and has travelled over much of the developing world - India and Africa in my case. If you were broke, had almost nil job prospects, no chance of a decent education (thru no fault of your own) and all you know of the West is what you see on TV i.e. the promise of a golden land just a couple of hours away ( they have pretty unrealistic ideas about the UK in my experience) plus none of the local girls want to know you, cos you dont earn enough, and you are in you twenties with time on your side and nothing to lose - what would you do? It's horrible but the internet cafes in many parts of the south/ south east arent far off what you find in Lagos, with local lads emailing women in the west who they meet thru dating chat rooms en masse and target, trying to get money or a visa out of them. (How did you meet this guy anyway?) As Sparkle pointed out earlier, even very wealthy Turks (and there are plenty of them) who want to visit the UK or Europe with perfectly legitimate business reasons, to visit suppliers, retailers etc, struggle to get a visa. What hope a lad from Hicksville who works in his Dads shop for six months of the year and does the boats down at Fethiye the rest of the time? Even Istanbuli girls dont speak to them, and the girls in Turkey are completely STUNNING imo. You say you wont get hurt etc, but you are clearly emotionally engaged with this guy or you would have dropped it by now. We arent trying to p*** on your parade, but the women on this forum are by and large the ones that survived, made decent relationships with Turkish men, often making considerable compromises along the way (ever met a Kurdish mother in law?) and only want you to go into this with you eyes fully open. And b4 you bang the race drum, about judging folk, one of my closest friends is Antiguan and I have a black Trinadadian auntie and cousins and close black AND white relatives in Zimbabwe. (Yes, they are still hanging on in there despite Mugabes best efforts) In the West we cant comprehend the lives they lead - it doesnt matter what colour you are. That's it - I'll shut up now.

Dakar, it's all good! But, re: the race thing, if you read the whole statement that I wrote about that being a posibility, then you should also have seen where I said that I realized that that was not the case, and quickly moved on from that issue. That's exactly what I mean. There may be some "experienced" people on this Forum, but when I get response from these "experienced" folks, they're responding only on "part" of my statement. It's like they focus on a part of the statement they want to focus on. Please read and re-read what I am posting, and then carefully submit your response as not to expound on just a "portion" of what you've read. The minute I mentioned race, I threw it out the window with a complete misunderstanding on my part, admitting that "I realized that that was not the case." But, perhaps, since it seems that the "experienced" on here expound on what they want to expound on, I should have deleted the statement all together. You take things without consideration to hear clearly what is being stated and run with it, which to me is completely unfair and unjust! Most of the advice on this Forum is good, I'll admit. But, you kind of border on misinformation when you take a post, disect it, and your response is totally off key because you don't share your advice based on the whole subject matter, just the immediate stuff that jumps out at you. Please read not only parts of statements when you are going to respond to a post, but what they're preferenced with as well. You seem pretty well rounded, so I don't want to take your advice lightly. But, I can't help but criticize you when your responses clearly are not based on the whole of the statements that you are responding to. And, not just you, but many of the other "experienced" on this vehicle. Know that nothing that has been said here has been hard for me to hear. I just have a problem with advice based on assumptions, and advice that is not given solely on the completeness of the statement of the originator. BTW, I don't have a parade to piss on. And, no matter how "experienced" anyone might be, that experience cannot be taken and used on the "unknown, unjustly. I really like this Forum, and LOVE a debate. ha ha! Keep sharing, and I'll keep responding.

Teskkur ederim, Dakar!

Rain

This sound to me a lot like Rain is way too defensive to take any advice and yet she started to topic to hear opinions (and get advice). Something doesn't match here... sounds suspicious.

And I'm sorry if I come across harsh now - not my purpose but I don't know how to else to put my thoughts as words.

Maybe something "doesn't match here...and "sounds suspicious" because you, just like the rest are not attentively reading my posts. Yes, I started it! And, I even said, that though I was not looking for advice, I was in no way shunning anyone's responses either. That is not exactly an invitation for advice, but a little respect and consideration for the logisitics of this Forum. You're confusing defensiveness with assertiveness. Many things that I have said have been totally and completely misconstrued, and just as all of you state your opinions on what I say (or give "experienced advice" as it's been called), do I not have the same right to state mine? How does this make me defensive? I think that because you all are "so experienced" it's hard to see someone respect that experience and rebut "some of it" at the same time. When intellect is against intellect, someone always gets "Offended". I am not the least offended by the experience and how I am being advised, but very bothered by the fact that much of what I say and or advice given to me is based on assumption or by the responder NOT reading the whole of my statements. No offense taken, non given.

Thanks again for your response.

Rain

actually I dont get it, you say you have the power of the CIA and FBI behind you .. sorry but are u watching too much movies ?

Dont they have enough to do as to look for a bad ending love story ?

And i never saw you , but he is 19 years younger than you, what you give him that not another woamn can give him ? maybe u ask him this ... im maybe old fashioned but why u running into this, there are a lot good looking 50 years old man outside.

So to be honest, we need to need more about this guy , what he is working, is he earning good money ? does he likes his job ? this are facts where u can see if he is looking into moving to the US or if he is pretty much happy where he lives now.

Cauz if he is, i cant see a reason why he wants to use you, but if he is not than there is a big potential that he will .... but good luck hope it will have a happy ending

Ok, so you're late on this "power" issue. If you've read all of the posts, you would clearly understand why I mentioned it. But, since I've already thrown out that baby with the bath, it is a moot subject at this particular juncture. And, it is very clear that you're not reading my posts at their entirety, otherwise you would know that I have not mentioned giving him anything! I simply shared that I met a Turkish guy on-line and admired his looks. Wanted to know if getting a US Visa was hard a typical thing. I shared this because he tried to get one and was denied. And, was just wondering the validity of this "Visa" difficulty thing. How can that be blown so far out of proportions, beats the crap out of me. Hey, if I find out what you feel you need to know about this guy, I will certainly share it. Though I highly doubt that it will be used or advised upon correctly based on what I have experienced on here thus far.

Thanks Ammo!

Rain

[RainSoleil]

Rain -
Not a single person on this website would describe your lad as a "village slumdog".
Far from it - most people, as outsiders here, are hyper sensitive to Turkey, the problems facing people that live all over the country - most of which are completely unfair and arbitrary. It's hard but that's how it is, esp for Kurds.

But I will tell you this honestly as a British woman who knows Turkey, had a relationship with a Kurdish man and has also lived and worked in the States (Vermont and Los Angeles) and has travelled over much of the developing world - India and Africa in my case.

If you were broke, had almost nil job prospects, no chance of a decent education (thru no fault of your own) and all you know of the West is what you see on TV i.e. the promise of a golden land just a couple of hours away ( they have pretty unrealistic ideas about the UK in my experience) plus none of the local girls want to know you, cos you dont earn enough, and you are in you twenties with time on your side and nothing to lose - what would you do?

It's horrible but the internet cafes in many parts of the south/ south east arent far off what you find in Lagos, with local lads emailing women in the west who they meet thru dating chat rooms en masse and target, trying to get money or a visa out of them.
(How did you meet this guy anyway?)

As Sparkle pointed out earlier, even very wealthy Turks (and there are plenty of them) who want to visit the UK or Europe with perfectly legitimate business reasons, to visit suppliers, retailers etc, struggle to get a visa. What hope a lad from Hicksville who works in his Dads shop for six months of the year and does the boats down at Fethiye the rest of the time? Even Istanbuli girls dont speak to them, and the girls in Turkey are completely STUNNING imo.

You say you wont get hurt etc, but you are clearly emotionally engaged with this guy or you would have dropped it by now.
We arent trying to p*** on your parade, but the women on this forum are by and large the ones that survived, made decent relationships with Turkish men, often making considerable compromises along the way (ever met a Kurdish mother in law?) and only want you to go into this with you eyes fully open.

And b4 you bang the race drum, about judging folk, one of my closest friends is Antiguan and I have a black Trinadadian auntie and cousins and close black AND white relatives in Zimbabwe. (Yes, they are still hanging on in there despite Mugabes best efforts)
In the West we cant comprehend the lives they lead - it doesnt matter what colour you are.

That's it - I'll shut up now.

Aslo, by the way, read some of the responses. Though, in so many words, my friend was called a poor village man who is uneducated, and lack the ability to latch on to a "westernized" Turkish beauty...."village slumdog". Now, tell me, how can someone so abrasively make that kind of assumption of someone they no absolutely nothing of? Go back, if you will, and read these posts and you will find "a single person" who has called him a slumdog in so many words. Yes, my friend has been called everything on this site but a child of God. And, in his absence, I defend him as a human being...nothing more.