30 replies to this topic

[dakar]

I'm still on unit one but I'm reaching the point now where there are a couple of things I dont understand and need to ask some guidance - the vocab and pronunciation is all fine - it's just the grammar now.

1. Whats the difference between onlar and onlarin?
(they both mean "they" ? - but cant be masculine and feminine?)

Onlarin gazete var - they have a newspaper
Onlar yemek pisiriyor - they are cooking food.
Onun baligi var - she has a fish

2. What's the difference between i with a dot and without, when it's grammatical, in a sentence ?


3. Cocuk (child) and cocukgun? - i've seen them both used to describe a single child
erkek cocuk kosuyor- the boy / child is running
erkek cocugun sutu var - the boy/ child has milk
"cocuklarin" - is this female children?

And to create a negative in something you add "mi"?
eg Onlar yusuyor - they are swimming
Onlar yuzmuyor - they are NOT swimming

Onlarin kalemleri VAR - they HAVE pencils?

Finally Yetiskinler? - what does this mean?

Thanks if anyone can help - I suspect I'll be posting more in coming weeks.

[Cukurbagli]

1.Onlar = they
Onların = theirs. adding ın or in is the posessive ending

Onların gazetesi var = (literally) their newspaper exists, or they have (their own) newspaper.
Onlar yemek pişiriyor = they are cooking food. Also can be Yemek pişiriyorlar.
Onun balığı var = her fish exists or she has (her own) fish.

2. The difference is caused by the vowel harmony. If the last vowel is e,i,ö,ü then you put a 'i'. If a,o,ı,u then put a 'ı'. EG Balık becomes Balığı, Gazete becomes Gazetesi.

3. Çocuk = child
Çocuğun = your child
Çocukların = the children's .....

Creating a negative. Yes you add mi, me, ma, mu. but don't be confused by the interrogative eg Onlar yuzmuyor mu? Are they not swimming? the negative goes after the root of the verb, the interrogative goes after the verb ending. Easy to get confused when listening to someone when you're starting to learn.

Onların kalemleri var = they have (their own) pencils

Yetişkinler = grown ups, adults, girls old enough to get married. The plural of Yetişkin, derived from Yetmek, to be enough, to reach or attain, also Yetişmiş mature or grown up.

The bits I've missed out I'm not sure about and as always we'll wait until Saffron comes and sets us right.

[dakar]

Thank you Curbagli

Sorry if I have to post some more (dumb ass) questions soon.

Rosetta Stone doesnt give english translations, I suspect this is how they sell the same branded product all over the world without changing it .

[Cukurbagli]

No such thing as "dumb ass" questions Dakar, only "dumb ass" answers. Learning Turkish isn't easy to start with but it will get easier soon. Learning enough for basic conversation can happen quite quickly if you work at it, unlike English once you learn a few endings and realise that nearly all verbs work in the same way it becomes easier.

[samanthaozkara]

Dakar, Cukur has answered most of your questions very well

you also asked 'What's the difference between i with a dot and without, when it's grammatical, in a sentence ?'

I tend to just think you use 'i' if the last vowel of a word is e, i, ö or ü & you use 'ı' if the last vowel of the word is a,ı,o or u.

For Example - Gelmek (To come) becomes geliyor (Coming) because it has an E in gel.
Almak (To buy) becomes Alıyor (Buying) because it has an A in Al.

Hope that helps. If you look on the net there are lot of turkish web sites that explain the difference. Try not to think too much about it, it took me so long to work it out but in the end when I stopped thinking about it I started to understand it more just by speaking. xxx

[aine]

Broom Carrier do you offer residential courses? Your explanations are so understanable.

[Cukurbagli]

I tend to just think you use 'i' if the last vowel of a word is e, i, ö or ü & you use 'ı' if the last vowel of the word is a,ı,o or u.

For Example - Gelmek (To come) becomes geliyor (Coming) because it has an E in gel.
Almak (To buy) becomes Alıyor (Buying) because it has an A in Al.

Actually Sam that's correct for the examples you've shown but you can't use that idea as a grammar rule. The buffer letter after the verb root should harmonise with the root vowel but there are differences, yüzmek becomes yüzüyorum (I am swimming), durmak becomes duruyorum (I am stopping), kokmak becomes kokuyorum (I am stinking) etc etc.

Aine I'm sure something could be arranged.

[samanthaozkara]

Aww yes sorry I didnt think about those. sorry sorry sorry!!! When I was learning the difference between ı and i I gave up as I was getting to confused and just started saying words if they sounded correctly if they were somebody would correct me. xxx

[ReshaCaner]

So, dakar, how is Rosetta Stone working for you? I've been debating about getting it, but I haven't made the leap yet.

[dakar]

I'm quite enjoying it actually - it doesnt feel like a chore at all. But it's clearly just one way of learning the language.
The emphasis is on getting you speaking turkish straightaway which is good.
But I'm still at the preliminary stages and as this thread has shown already, you really do need to ask for guidance at certain points.

Plus it's expensive - I paid three hundred quid.
Ideally I think you'd do RS and a nightschool class too- but thats not an option for me.

[Cukurbagli]

Dakar there's a good book called 201 Turkish Verbs (ISBN 0-8120-2034-0) available from Amazon that you might find useful. It has varying reviews, some find it unnecessary and others swear by it, I found it quite useful in the early days and still look at it now and then.

[dakar]

thnx - I'll check it out.

[Burleyrose]

I started using Rosetta stone recently and think its great, the reason it doesnt give you translations is because the idea is for you to learn as you learnt to speak English as a child, by associating the words with objects and actions rather than with the equivelant word in English.

I did have a basic grasp of Turkish (I understand quite a bit but struggle to speak) before I started using it though so this probably make it easier, Listening, reading and writing seem to be going really well for me. my only problem is I have a broad yorkshire accent which comes across even when I am speaking Turkish so pronunciation is proving very difficult for me. Any tips on pronunciation? or just how to lose a Yorkshire accent lol

[dakar]

Haha!
My best friend is from Bradford - I can well believe it's an accent you'll never shake.

I am having mixed feelings about the Turkish I am learning so far.
On many levels it seems quite straighforward - esp the grammar, apart from the i with dot /without situation- which seems to be quite easy to get wrong when you are starting out.

What I am noticing is the verbs are very economical and one verb can mean lots of different variations on the same idea/theme.
Plus a lot of the words are so similar - yaziyor, usuyor, kosuyor.

Annoyingly my RS course is now refusing to download the next unit - but I think this may be because the clocks have gone back and it's not recogising the timing on the internet connection.

[Rasha]

Hi,
Sorry I have a question:
How can I say this in Turkish:

My book
My books
Their book
Their books

What is the difference in plural nouns?

Thanks

[sunny]

Benim kitabım
Kitaplarım
onların kitap
onların kitapları

I don't know what you mean by 'the difference in plural nouns'.

[saffron]

Hi Dakar,
Turkish language has some letters and suffixes that serve different functions and indeed this is a very confusing point for a lerarner.
An example : çocukların: children's
çocukların: your children
çocuklarının: your children's
çocuklarının:their children's
çocuklarının: their child's
Here, not only the similar letters or suffixes but also another point needs attention: Third person plural can be confused with the singular one, when a possession is concerned.
Another point is the use of some letters like ı,i,u, and ü that are used to make some things 'definite', and, as such, used as part of some possessive relations and compound words.
an example: onların kitabı ('onların kitap' is wrong)
I tried to explain these points earlier, in as much detail as possible, and as short as possible as well.. A long explanation is boring, but a short one is risky.
So you can take a look at my posts titled Some Basic Points I, II, III and at
http://www.turkeycen...ose-book-is-it/
After getting a satisfactory notion about the use of the letters n, s and y, you can tell when a suffix/letter is part of a compound or something possessed by somebody.
And probably you will find the answer to your question about 'ı'. Though you want to know the difference between 'ı' i, I guess you felt that there is a grammar point involved.

[Cukurbagli]

Thank you Saffron, you are so good. There is nothing like getting it from a native speaker of the language, especially one who teaches too.

[saffron]

Another important topic. A few examples of negative uses:
Koşmuyorum: I'm not running/ I dont run (please dont pay attention to conjugations, there is no one-to-one correspondance between present continous and simple present tenses of Turkish and English)
Aç-mı-yorum: I'm not opening/I dont open
Kaç-mı-yorum: I'm not running away/I dont escape
Üzül-mü-yorum: I dont feel sorry
Gel-mi-yorum: I'm not coming/ I dont come
Seç-mi-yorum: I'm not choosing/I dont choose
Oku-mu-yorum: I'm not reading/I dont read

As you notice, I used only mı,mi,mu,or mü, whereas:
Açmam: I dont/wont open (please dont get an impression that this is the only form of future tense)
Kaçmam: I dont/wont run away
Gelmem: I dont/wont come
Okumam : I dont/wont read
Yazmam: I dont/wont write
Kaç-ma-ya-cağım: I wont run wawy (decisive)
Uç-ma-yacağım : I wont fly
Gel-me-yeceğim
Sürmeyeceğim(arabayı) : I wont drive
Bil-me-yeceğim: I wont know
As you see, only me and ma are possible.

Hisset-me-dim: I didn't feel (something)
Üşü-me-dim: I din't feel cold
Bak-ma-dım : I din't look
Kız-ma-dım: I din't get angry
Uyu-ma-dım: I didn't sleep
Again, only me and ma are used.

The concept of vowel harmony, as you see, is in fact too detailed to be summarized in a formula if the whole language is in question. So the best thing to do, I think, is to learn the words as they are, while paying attention to how the harmony works..

(You're welcome Çukurbağlı..it is good to see the discussions going on when I'm not around )

[clinky]

I'm slowly working my way through Rosetta Stone...I 'bought' all three levels.

It's very good I must say.